Hi Chris, Here they are and thanks much for the SAT post to me. Avery >Sorry but I am a little behind in reading this list and I missed the >beginning of this stream. Could someone please explain how you use steam >in voicing? Is there a journal article I missed or some other source I >could learn more about this? > >Thanks, >Chris To: atodd@uh.edu From: ATodd@uh.edu (Avery Todd) Subject: Hammer Steaming Posts Cc: Bcc: X-Attachments: From: IN%"kam544@ionet.net" Date: Sat, 17 Feb 1996 14:01:39 -0600 >Due to some problems on my end I have lost all the messages on hammer >steamers. Can someone EASILY tell me the app. date for when that thread >started so I can search the archives for it? > >Thanks for any help. > >Avery Todd, RPT I just happen to have that on file, Avery. Here it is: >To: from aol files >From: kam544@ionet.net (Keith A. McGavern) >Subject: Hammer steaming > >Subj: Hammer steaming testimonial >Date: Tue, May 23, 1995 9:47 AM CST >From: pianotech@byu.edu >X-From: Daniel.Dover@Dartmouth.EDU (Daniel Dover) > >To Dave Stanwood: > >A thousand thanks for your tip on steaming hard hammers to bring down the >brightness. It works beautifully, and so fast! Just a split second for each >hammer in the spout, with a good head of steam. > >I've been going around to all the practice room grands here at Dartmouth and >it makes a huge difference. > >My confession: The very first hammer I tried steaming (a Steinway 'L' in a >practice room), I flipped the hammer into the spout and it got caught! In a >panic I, of course, made things worse by sloshing boiling water into the >hammer >(the kettle was too full-- you only need a little water.) Boy was I glad no >one was around. Anyway, that one hammer is kind of a funny shape right now >(I'll leave it to your imagination-- don't try it) and eventually I'll have to >replace it, but you know it really doesn't sound all that bad! > >Anyway, that was my training cost, and it was well worth it. > >Thanks again, Dave. > >Danny Dover >Dartmouth College, Hanover, NH > > >Subj: Re: Hammer steaming testimonial >Date: Tue, May 23, 1995 1:13 PM CST >From: pianotech@byu.edu >X-From: PNOTNR@aol.com > >Dave's demonstration at the Vermont Seminar was far and away the most >dramatic >(and simple) voicing procedure I have ever seen and heard. I >must confess that >at a lot of other voicing classes, the instructor >inserts a needle, the class >reacts with a wave of enthusiasm, and I sit >there thinking, "well,...I guess I >hear the difference". > >Dave steamed a very bright hammer on a small Yamaha grand for only as long as >it took to insert and remove from the spout, and my jaw nearly fell on the >>floor with the result. Maybe I'll get over my fear of voicing with this >>technique! > >Gordon Large, RPT >Mount Vernon, ME > >Subj: Re: Hammer steaming >Date: Wed, May 24, 1995 8:47 PM CST >From: pianotech@byu.edu >X-From: PNOTNR@aol.com > >William, > >It's a fairly straight forward operation. Using an electric kettle, you >get the water boiling rapidly, then with the action out and resting on your >lap, you insert and remove the hammer head into the spout (which should be >>about the size of a hammer head). The hammer never stops. It is >literally in >and out. You'll be surprised at how much change you get for >so little time. > >I purchased my electric kettle at Wal-Mart...It cost about $19.00 and could be >used to make soup if the stove quits. > >Gordon Large >Mt. Vernon, ME > >Subj: Re: Good Hammer Steamer >Date: Tue, Oct 31, 1995 7:22 PM CST >From: pianotech@byu.edu >X-From: t.seay@mail.utexas.edu > >I found them at Target...Tom Seay > >Subj: Re: Hammer steaming >Date: Thu, May 25, 1995 3:31 PM CST >From: pianotech@byu.edu >X-From: stanwood@tiac.net (stanwood) > >John Mussellwhite: > >>can an over-steamed hammer be restored by ironing? > >Yes. The limiting factor is the pressure that you can apply with your >typical ironing tool. The kind of pressure that made the hammer in the >first place is higher than what you will achieve from a hand ironing tool. > >Heat (dry or wet) and static pressure reduces the volume of the felt, >increasing density and reducing resiliency. Steam reverses things by >increasing the volume, decreasing density, and increasing resiliency. The >cycle may be repeated endlessly. > >A comment: Sustained heat above 200 F. will degrade the integrity of the wool >fibers complex molecular structure and lead to a decrease in the felts >liveliness. > >You also must take into account that steaming causes the hammer to become >slightly narrower at the top layers. This is a big reason to avoid heavy >doses of steam. > >>I also look after a Yamaha G-2 (in the Banff Springs Hotel): > >To tell if it is a candidate try a sample by applying minimal steam, that is >in and out of the spout very quickly. Let it sit for a few minutes and >check >the result. Assess for tonal effects and changes in the shape of >the felt. >Analyze and proceed. ` > >>And finally, a customer has a Steinway M which had new (factory) hammers in >>the seventies: > >Steam only works on felt that has been hardened and densified by heat and >pressure. In this situation, the steam may have little or no effect. Just >try it and see if it works. > >On an older Yamaha C-7 got great results by: over steaming, then heavy >filing and reshaping then lacquering up. This allowed the customer to get a >few more years out of otherwise unsalvageable hammers. > >Steam, needles, vise grips, irons, etc., etc. all exist to help us achieve >a density gradient in the felt that produces the best tone. > >David C. Stanwood > >Subj: Re: Hammer steaming >Date: Fri, May 26, 1995 8:35 AM CST >From: pianotech@byu.edu >X-From: berich@heartland.bradley.edu (Barbara Richmond) > >I've had such wonderful success using softeners--five years here at >IWU--and >have seen no adverse effects. The only results have been making >previously un- >voicable (honky-tonk) hammers produce nice piano tone. > >Barbara Richmond > >Subj: Re: Hammer steaming >Date: Sat, May 27, 1995 4:23 AM CST >From: pianotech@byu.edu >X-From: larryf@pacifier.com (Larry Fisher) > >I write in support of fabric softeners. Diluted with Isoprypol 8 parts >alcohol to one part softener, works so nice on hammers that sometimes are >not responsive to anything else. > >I've been using diluted fab softener for about a year now. The results >last >longer than needling alone. The solution is applied directly on the >striking >surface with a hypo-bottle in a very thin line. I follow that >with the usual >needling to open up the hammer on either side of the >striking surface. This >makes those "Asian" hammers sound more American, >and also keeps people from >complaining that they can't get their >PianoDisc unit to play soft enough. So >far, 100% success and >satisfaction. > >--- Larry Fisher RPT > >Subj: Re: Hammer steaming >Date: Thu, Jun 1, 1995 8:57 AM CST >From: pianotech@byu.edu >X-From: larryf@pacifier.com (Larry Fisher) > >...the really correct stuff to use is wood alcohol because it totally >>evaporates... > >--- Larry Fisher RPT > >Subj: Re: Hammer steaming >Date: Sat, May 27, 1995 8:17 AM CST >From: pianotech@byu.edu >X-From: stanwood@tiac.net (stanwood) > >I've never used fabric softener. I do know that anything added to >felt will degrade it's ability to work, and felt has a great capacity to >work in spite of all the tortures we put it through. Perhaps the problems >that someone had with fabric softener were in a situation that was already >pushing the felt to the limits, and the fabric softener was the straw that >broke the camels back. > >Steam does it best and without adding anything that stays in the felt. >A small amount of water added to a large amount of alcohol works too. Heat >up the solution and soak the hammers with it. Allow to dry overnight. > >Stanwood > >Subj: Re: Hammer steaming >Date: Sat, May 27, 1995 2:00 PM CST >From: pianotech@byu.edu >X-From: stanwood@tiac.net (stanwood) > >For hammer steaming I suggest you get yourself an electric tea kettle. >Presto makes a cheap one. > >David Stanwood > >Subj: Re: Hammer steaming testimonial >Date: Mon, May 29, 1995 4:48 AM CST >From: pianotech@byu.edu >X-From: Yardbird47@aol.com > >Water won't soak into hard-pressed wool because of water's surface tension. >Dilute it with alcohol, and the alcohol will open the door. (I used the >alcohol/water soak for a couple of years, but always begrudged its >slowness.......similar to lacquer/lacq thinner vs. plastic/acetone.) Turn the >water from liquid to vapor, and you've eliminated its surface tension. > >Bill Ballard, RPT > >Subj: Good Hammer Steamer >Date: Wed, Oct 25, 1995 8:51 AM CST >From: pianotech@byu.edu >X-From: stanwood@tiac.net (stanwood) > >For those of you University techs who need help beating back hard hammers >and harsh tone, try the electric steam pot method. I've just tried another >model and it has three nice features. Low price, removable lid, and a >warm >setting for standby. > >Make: RIVAL >Model: 4070 >Description: Hot Pot Express with adjustable thermostat > >Made by: The Rival Company > Kansas City, MO 64131 > > >Subj: Re: Good Hammer Steamer >Date: Wed, Oct 25, 1995 1:34 PM CST >From: pianotech@byu.edu >X-From: t.seay@mail.utexas.edu > >It also makes a great glue pot, as well. We have some in our shop at school. > >Regards, > >Tom Seay >t.seay@mail.utexas.edu >The University of Texas at Austin > >Subj: Re: Good Hammer Steamer >Date: Tue, Oct 31, 1995 5:02 PM CST >From: pianotech@byu.edu >X-From: schecter@TFS.COM (Mark Schecter) > >I gather that this has something to do with applying steam to the hammer >felt, >causing it to swell and unpack, in effect softening it. Is there >more written >somewhere about using this technique, or would you be so >kind as to summarize? >Thanks very much. > > --Mark Schecter > >Subj: Re: Good Hammer Steamer >Date: Wed, Nov 1, 1995 1:01 PM CST >From: pianotech@byu.edu >X-From: schecter@TFS.COM (Mark Schecter) > >One question. How long do the hammers remain moist, and have you >noticed rust at the strike line? Seems to me to pose some risk, >especially for bass strings. (Of course, brass doesn't rust, but >the steel core wire might.) Just wondering. > > --Mark > >Subj: Hammer Steaming >Date: Wed, Nov 1, 1995 3:34 PM CST >From: pianotech@byu.edu >X-From: arnold@nando.net (Arnold) > >I find the discussion about steaming hammers as a voicing technique to be >very interesting and intend to buy one of those steamers to try it, but I >have a few questions. First, being that steam is being used to induce >moisture into the felt and therefore make it swell, how much does the >result change after the hammers have had a few days or weeks to dry out? >Second, can that set of hammers that really are in need of replacing, but >aren't "down to the wood yet" be revived with this method, or is that >denser layer of felt able to be made softer? Finally, how about that set >of new hammers that are beginning life already too bright for the >customer? Finally, I'll bet this method would work to swell key bushings >where the bushing is still intact, but the piano has either been played >roughly, or, "woops" I got a bit too generous with the key easing pliers. >Does this work, too? > >Subj: Re: Hammer Steaming >Date: Thu, Nov 2, 1995 9:35 AM CST >From: pianotech@byu.edu >X-From: ATodd@UH.EDU > >To all, > Sort of along this same line, because it swells/softens the hammer felt, >does anyone have much experience with the methanol/water method of voicing. >Especially if one is trying to tone down a complete set. > I've used it a little on older pianos with very hard hammers and especially >in a practice room situation (small room) it really seems to help. I've >tried it a little for normal type voicing and my biggest objection is that >you have to wait about 30 min. to be sure what you have. > But I'm also wondering about the long term effects of it. >Any comments appreciated. > >Avery Todd >University of Houston >atodd@uh.edu > > > >Subj: Re: Hammer Steaming >Date: Thu, Nov 2, 1995 10:01 AM CST >From: pianotech@byu.edu >X-From: ATodd@UH.EDU > >Arnold, > I've seen this "drying out" comment made on other posts. My thought, after >reading the explanations of how to use the steaming method, is how much steam >actually gets into the hammer. You don't hold it in the steam. You just >insert and immediately remove, according to what I've read. So I wouldn't >think there would be any drying time to speak of. Especially more than >30 min. or so, if that. > Am I thinking along the right line? > >Avery Todd >University of Houston >atodd@uh.edu > >P.S. I think I'm going to get one and try it, too. Especially on our >practice >room grands. > >Subj: Re: Hammer Steaming >Date: Thu, Nov 2, 1995 6:06 PM CST >From: pianotech@byu.edu >X-From: dporritt@post.cis.smu.edu (David Porritt) > >I have done some steaming on hard hammers that wouldn't respond to needles >and >it works fine. It's quick (by the time you can get the action back >in the >piano) and lasts a while. For truly long term softening of very >hard hammers, >I still like the fabric softener (1 part Snuggle, 7 parts >isopropyl alchohol.) >It seems to last until you file that felt off. >Just put a little on the >striking surface, and dry with a hair dryer. >Works best on hammers so hard >that needles won't penetrate. > >Dave Porritt >SMU - Dallas > >Subj: Re: Hammer Steaming >Date: Thu, Nov 2, 1995 8:52 PM CST >From: pianotech@byu.edu >X-From: AKarab@aol.com > >"Arnold" wrote: >>> Finally, I'll bet this method would work to swell key bushings > >While I would not want to fit the bushing cloth itself by swelling _it_, >(stability?) (moisture transferring to bond to pin in ugly colors?) I was >once treated to the rejuvinating of the wood shape under the felt where not >just overeasing but easing with needle nose pliers had been done in a pinch >(no pun intended). Laura Kunsky did the work, apparently it didn't take long >and the previous mishaping of the wood was almost imperceptable. So I think >the steam is useful to restore wood shape that would then support _new_ >bushings. > >Audrey Karabinus, Seattle > >Subj: Re: Hammer Steaming >Date: Thu, Nov 2, 1995 8:59 PM CST >From: pianotech@byu.edu >X-From: Tunrboy@aol.com > >I've been using alcohol (isopropyl) on NEW piano hammers for a couple years. >It seems a little shady, especially when I tell the new piano owner not to >play the piano until the next morning. I've found that it only really works >on new piano hammers. Older than five years and I don't get the dazzling >results. Kawai and Samick respond especially well to this method. Ray >Chandler told me once that the Kawai hammers are subjected to deep needling >at the factory and it takes quite a bit of stabbing to make a change. Hence >the alcohol. Baldwins take even more soaking. It seems to work alright if >you soak them generously, but as you say, you have to wait to hear the >results. That's why I'm so interested in trying the steaming technique >brought up here. My biggest concern is with accidental oversteaming. I can >just see the felt break free of its moulding. Someone please reassure me >this won't happen! > >Eric Leatha >tunrboy@aol.com > >Subj: Re: Hammer Steaming/Felt facts >Date: Wed, Nov 8, 1995 1:36 PM CST >From: pianotech@byu.edu >X-From: stanwood@tiac.net (stanwood) > >A general reply to all the discussion on Hammer Steaming: > >The beauty of the wool fibers in felt is that they want to stand up >straight, >as if on the back of a sheep. > >The intertangling of the felting process restricts the movement of the >fibers and they can't stand up as staight as they would like. They try, but >can only get so far. This leaves air spaces in between the fibers. The >amount of air space determines how much the fibers can flex as the felt is >compressed (as in a hammer strike). > >The ability of the fibers to push back after flexing is a function of the >very complex molecular structure of the wool fiber. Essentially each fiber >is a bundle of little rubber bands. Flexing and moving back and forth >relates "resiliancy". Resiliancy is erased by pressing with dry heat. The >heat softens the wool fiber by virtue of its thermoplastic property and the >pressing reduces the air spaces making the felt become denser and less >resiliant. When the pressure is released and the felt cools, it remains in >this densified state. > >Two things will restore the resiliancy of the wool fibers pressed with heat. >Heat in combination with water, and physical working and moving of the fibers. > >Techniques such as steaming and adding alchohol/water to felt restore the >resiliancy if the felt was hot pressed and if the fibers have latent >resiliancy locked up in their structure. It's the water that activates the >wool. > >I like steam because it introduces a minimal amount of water that drys in a >matter of minutes. If you overdo the steam, file off the soft felt. If >needed, use needles after steaming to soften deeper layers. The steam >expands the surface layers first and allows room for deeper layers to expand >and make the air spaces larger by needling. > >This is all the time I can devote to writing today, gotta go to work. > >David C. Stanwood > >Subj: Re: can someone please repeat wehre to find steamer? >Date: Thu, Nov 16, 1995 12:59 AM CST >From: pianotech@byu.edu >X-From: Tunrboy@aol.com > >I got mine at Fred Meyer for $15. I have since seen them at ShopKo, WalMart >and Target. Its a RIVAL Hot pot express with adjustable thermostat. I think >the model number was 4070. It really does work miracles on hard hammers. > >Eric Leatha >tunrboy@aol.com > >Subj: Re: can someone please repeat wehre to find steamer? >Date: Thu, Nov 16, 1995 9:12 AM CST >From: pianotech@byu.edu >X-From: matthewo@infinet.com (Matthew Osborn) > >Last night I saw it at Sears for $9.99. (And I didn't pick one up! <Matthew whacks the side of his head>... guess it's back to Sears today.) > >Matthew > >Subj: Re: inventor of steaming hammers with Rival >Date: Tue, Dec 5, 1995 2:11 PM CST >From: pianotech@byu.edu >X-From: (Susan Willanger) > >Who originally thought of the amazing steam method of voicing? I need to >know for an article I am running in our newsletter. I am having very good >luck >with this method, and it's so easy and fast. I also used the steam >to >straighten out some crumpled damper trichord felt. It reshaped the >deformed >damper immediately. > >Steaming in Seattle >Susan Willanger RPT >University of Washington > >Subj: Re: inventor of steaming hammers with Rival >Date: Wed, Dec 6, 1995 1:04 PM CST >From: pianotech@byu.edu >X-From: horace@best.com (Horace Greeley) > >Susan, > >In the days before chemicals and over-hard new hammers, steam was a valued >and necessary part of the voicer's technical bag of tricks. Lots of comment >in early journals and writings, also in some patent descriptions of hammer >presses, c.f. Dolge, et cet. > >Horace > >Subj: Re: inventor of steaming hammers with Rival >Date: Tue, Dec 5, 1995 11:17 PM CST >From: pianotech@byu.edu >X-From: Tunrboy@aol.com > >My original post on this came from the below address: > > David C. Stanwood Stanwood@tiac.net > West Tisbury, Massachusetts USA > On the Island of Martha's Vineyard > >It really works slick, doesn't it? I modified my pot by adding a six inch >rubber tube extending from the nozzle so I can direct the steam to upright >hammers (careful to always keep the tube up so as to prevent condensation >from running out onto the action). It also dissolves glue joints when >wallpaper remover can't be found! > >Eric Leatha >tunrboy@aol.com > >Subj: Re: Steaming Hammers >Date: Fri, Dec 8, 1995 10:33 AM CST >From: pianotech@byu.edu >X-From: stanwood@tiac.net (stanwood) > >I was able to reshape some deformed bass trichord felt that had sat in the >wrong position for about 20 years >Susan Willanger RPT > >> Forget the steam for bass damper wedges. >> >> David C. Stanwood Stanwood@tiac.net > >Susan, > >I apologize for using the word "forget". It's grouped with words such as >>"never" (never say never). I quess I broke my own rule. > >The rule is: do it if it works. > >David C. Stanwood > >Subj: Re: Steaming Hammers >Date: Sat, Dec 9, 1995 8:25 AM CST >From: pianotech@byu.edu >X-From: Wippen@aol.com > >I think it is important that someone should point out, especially to the newer >technicians on the list, that the use of steam as one of the tools we >sometimes use in hammer voicing is *not* a cure-all wonder technique. > >Steam should always be used prudently and carefully and, as David Stanwood >said, be always mindful of its power. It is SOOOO easy to go too far and end >up with mush. > >IMO, steam should never be used as a substitute for conventional voicing >techniques and certainly does not eliminate the need for proper shaping and >surfacing of hammers. Some types of hammers respond BADLY to just a little >>steam, others respond little. > >Tread softly and slowly. > >Paul Dempsey >Marshall University >wippen@aol.com
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