Hi Greg, 2 cents for concert level work is pushing the limits of stability. I often used the pitch correction mode in RCT with the spinner set as fast as it will turn to compensate for instability, followed by a careful tuning. My conclusion is that there is no minor amount. Classic "frog on the log" that can jump 1/2 to the end on any move. At 09:00 PM 8/28/02 -0400, you wrote: >Mark, > Do you then float up or down within this 4-5 cent window? If so >why? Do you really find that the piano is unstable when correcting for this >minor amount? What if the orchestra is also using some other fixed pitch >instrument? What if you really don't know how the piano will be used? or >with what other instrument? String segments and wire tension >notwithstanding the judgement call being made is that it's not important to >maintain standard pitch? is this the call your comfortable deciding for >yourself? > >respectfully, > >Greg Newell > > >At 06:30 PM 8/28/2002, you wrote: >>In leveling, seating and straightening of strings, I try to have the piano >>(as I understand most of you do) at pitch. i.e.: settle the coils, re-tune >>to A:440, seat at the bridge, re-tune to A:440, lift at the agraffes, >>re-tune to A:440, etc. >> >>The rational for this (I believe) is to have all the string segments bearing >>or terminating their very best, when the piano is at pitch. And this is >>where it gets a bit murky,.. or not. >> >>I guess it depends on your mental image of what happens to the string >>segments during a (climate-induced) pitch change. I see the strings as >>changing tension 'most' along the speaking length rather than at my >>carefully straightened little segments at the capo, around the hitch-pins, >>etc. >> >>This comfortable delusion permits me to see things as returning pretty much >>to normal, after permitting a minor "pitch float." Whereas lowering or >>raising string tension, in reaction to (climactic) pitch change, presents >>the picture of hauling string hand-over-fist, through every termination and >>bearing point,... then, back again kinks and all, in the other direction a >>few weeks later. It seems alot like running to the other side of the boat >>with every wave. (Which presents another picture; summer is almost gone and >>I haven't had the sailboat out once! :>( >> >>In response to Greg, climate control has brought most of our instruments to >>within a 4 or 5 cent window, which we can easily deal with. I think it is a >>good idea though to consider what all is going on in the piano when climate >>moves the pitch, other than just a change in string tension. >> >>Mark Cramer, >>Brandon University >> >> BTW, I hope you have all had a nice summer, and wish you well during >>the fall season! >> >>-----Original Message----- >>From: owner-caut@ptg.org [mailto:owner-caut@ptg.org]On Behalf Of Greg >>Newell >>Sent: Wednesday, August 28, 2002 4:30 PM >>To: caut@ptg.org >>Subject: Re: Floating pitch -- & ear plugs >> >> >>Otto, >> First I want to make clear that I'm responding to the thread in >>general and not just your post. I clearly understand why those who do, >>float pitch. That having been said I would try all I could to not do it. I >>can forsee a situation where someone knows the piano has "just been tuned" >>and yet another instrumentalist who just happens to have good pitch memory >>(Perfect Pitch) will remark to his or her group that the piano is flat. >>perhaps even significantly. For those who do float pitch why is it that you >>can't simply explain to whatever institution that the temperature and >>humidity fluctuations are simply too great and that Dampp Chasers must be >>installed to maintain anything resembling correct and stable pitch? Money >>is always an issue but if we always give them a way out will they not >>always take it? My two cents. >> >>Greg Newell >> >> >> >> >> >> >>At 02:57 PM 8/28/2002, you wrote: >> >Several years ago I tuned for North Park College in Chicago. We had a >>bunch >> >of Wurlitzer (Squirrelitzer) studios in the practice rooms of a building >> >that kept the rain off. The pitch went up & down like a yo-yo on a long >> >string. Initially, I spent many a day in those concrete cubicles, >> >de-stabilizing those percussion, stringed instruments. Aug. to Dec. could >> >see a 40 cent pitch drop in certain areas of the scale. While they were >> >still cantankerous, floating the pitch a reasonable amount preserved my >> >sanity (such as it is) and the departmental budget. >> > >> >On another note: >> >It was in those bunkers that I learned to tune with ear plugs as well, >> >though I did quit using them for several years after I left there, for fear >> >that customers might mistrust a piano tuner with ear plugs. In recent >>years >> >I have gone back to wearing them, educating my customers of the decibel >> >levels I generate, & reminding them that one may be a visually-impaired >> >tuner, but there is not a lot of call for deaf piano tuners. I have found >>I >> >can concentrate better anyway, since it decreases the db level & cuts out >> >much of the distracting backgound noise. Some poorly scaled pianos will go >> >muddy in some sections, particularly the upper treble, but you can always >> >pop them out for the offending note(s) & back in again. I always do a >>final >> >check, sans ear plugs, anyway. Good customers understand the rationelle & >> >are supportive. Those who don't can always be referred to the sleazy >> >"competition". We make our living with our ears -- best preserve them as >> >long as possible. >> > >> >Otto >> > >> >Piano Technician >> >University of Idaho >> >208-885-7918 >> >----- Original Message ----- >> >From: "Vanderhoofven" <dkvander@joplin.com> >> >To: <caut@ptg.org> >> >Sent: Wednesday, August 28, 2002 9:16 AM >> >Subject: Floating pitch >> > >> > >> > > Dear Friends, >> > > >> > > In past years I have attempted to tune pianos in the colleges I tune for >> >to >> > > A-440 each tuning. This has caused me extra work (usually unpaid), and >> > > mental stress. >> > > >> > > This year I have floated pitch on every piano I have tuned, and I feel >>so >> > > much happier! No one has complained about the pianos being at A-442 or >> > > A-443, and the pianos are behaving better. When the temperature is 72 >> > > Fahrenheit, and the relative humidity is 83% indoors in the music >> >building, >> > > floating pitch is the only way to go. >> > > >> > > Thanks to Kent Swafford, I have finally seen the light! >> > > >> > > David Vanderhoofven >> > > Joplin, MO >> > > >> >>Greg Newell >>mailto:gnewell@ameritech.net > >Greg Newell >mailto:gnewell@ameritech.net > > > Regards, Don Rose, B.Mus., A.M.U.S., A.MUS., R.M.T., R.P.T. mailto:pianotuna@accesscomm.ca http://us.geocities.com/drpt1948/ 3004 Grant Rd. REGINA, SK S4S 5G7 306-352-3620 or 1-888-29t-uner
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