Pinning and Tone

[Isaac sur Noos]

Hello,

I have actually a whippen and a grand shank from NY, and indeed :
When looking closely one can understand that the expremity of the
flanges where dipped in something, even if you pass with a finger
along you feel the tefloned part. The bushing is impregnated with a
white product.

The holding seem very firm for the very little friction of the parts.

What dismiss me is that the joint of the bushing for the jack seem (to
me)  in a wrong place, where it is the more prone to get some play
quick, I mean on the front of the flange, almost horizontally, that is
obviously where the pressure apply when the jack is pushed with the
button and blocked by the lever flange stop cushion (and in fact my
new part have yet a visible little side play in that direction, but it
was due to a little defect in the bushing joint.

Renner instruct us to install the bushing joint (for the jack) almost
vertically, on a 5° tolerance between vertical position and a little
towards the back of the part. This from evidence is not a pressure
point for the jack.

Being made susopicious, I checked other joint positions, other joints
are vertical, the same as Renner parts. Hammer joint seem Ok too

May be the sample parts I received had a mistake made, can you check
that also ?

The most obvoius problem is in the jack.

The pinning method have of course yet to prove its value in time, but
the effect is indeed very interesting (firmness and friction free)
Otherwhile, I've find the parts precisely made, but the cushion rest
felt is a bit hard for my liking, the whippen heel seem a tad too soft
(white cloth), and the rollers are strange to my european eyes (not
really round but I can't understand if it is on purpose).
Not to say that Reenner parts look better , I am used to it and have
rarely real problems with them, these days al;l piano parts are
different from what they where 15 years ago, sometime for the better
(more precise) sometime for the worse (material less good).

I'll be glad to hear comments. I have considered using these parts on
a NY mod C I know. A friend just used a total Renner action parts on a
1907 mod B (NY) and everything went fine from the firts try
(whippen.hammer.shanks).

Renner provide us actually 8 different whippen models for these
instruments, less expensive, but not friction free ;>)

Best regards.

Isaac



------------------------------------
Isaac OLEG
accordeur - réparateur
oleg-i@noos.fr
17 rue de Choisy
94400 Vitry sur Seine
tel: 033 01 47 18 06 98
fax: 033 01 47 18 06 90
mobile: 033 06 60 42 58 77
------------------------------------


> -----Message d'origine-----
> De : caut-bounces@ptg.org [mailto:caut-bounces@ptg.org]De la part de
> fssturm@unm.edu
> Envoyé : samedi 25 octobre 2003 22:31
> À : College and University Technicians
> Objet : RE: Pinning and Tone
>
>
>    Thanks for your thoughts on this, Don.
>    Going back to the original question, which had to do
> with current Steinway
> production and specs, I'd like to offer a little info I got
> from the factory this week
> (just got back from a week long seminar). First, how they
> produce the parts in
> the factory. The process is as follows:
> 1) Insert bushing cloth in hole - the cloth has glue on one
> side, but otherwise is
> unadulterated bushing felt. (Glue is activated by heat, or
> maybe microwaves or
> something. The glue is dry when inserted, somewhat like
> Renner bushing
> cloth).
> 2) Insert sizing pin, and set up a fairly large number of
> parts in a fixture.
> 3) Dip the fixture into a teflon solution (just the
> protruding bushings - the fixture
> is designed to have just a small portion exposed).
> 4) Allow to dry.
> 5) Remove sizing pin and pin parts together.
>    That's it. I was careful to ask enough questions to
> determine that there were no
> further steps (eg, no burnishing). The teflon solution is
> not emralon/permalon. It
> has a solvent that is too volatile for shipping (hence not
> offered to techs). I
> examined the fixtures, and found dried teflon residue that
> felt and acted like thin
> sheet teflon (broke off a bit and fooled around with it.
> FWIW, it is white when
> dry).
>    Current doctrine is that Steinway wants 1 to 3 grams
> friction, and that the teflon
> most definitely makes a firmer action center than untreated
> felt. This from a
> couple people in technical support and C & A. They say they
> definitely want the
> lower friction - that it produces better responding action.
> This is by design.
>    I must say I was impressed by the action portion of the
> factory. It has been
> completely re-tooled and reorganized over the past 15
> years. We had lunch with
> the guy who oversaw that for a period of ten years (and is
> now in over-all quality
> control). Very impressive person (I'm bad at names, and
> promptly forgot it). He
> was quite open about how bad things were when he started. Worn out
> machines - out of tolerance, slip shod production methods.
> That was when they
> were using Renner parts in B's and D's in production. Now
> all are made in NYC,
> and production of parts is enough that they are closer to
> keeping up with orders
> from the field.
>
> Regards,
> Fred Sturm
> University of New Mexico
>
> Quoting Don Mannino <dmannino@kawaius.com>:
>
> snip
> > - Too little friction causes no problems in tone at all in and of
> > itself.  It is only because we are using cloth bushings that low
> > friction results in poor tone because the hammer is not controlled
> > in
> > its motion well enough.  Please understand me here - if you have a
> > very,
> > very firm bushing that will pin with low friction and still have
> > excellent side control, the tone should be fine.  It is the
> > limitation
> > of using a soft bushing material that forces us to pin with
> > sufficient
> > friction to get the control we need.  It is not the
> friction itself
> > which gives good tone - it is the firmness of the bushing.
> snip
> > Don Mannino
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