Steinway "pinning" dilemma

[Richard Brekne]

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Jim Busby wrote:

> Thanks Ric.
>
> Steinway’s standard used to be “less than 4 grams” but seems to have
> changed. Now it’s not one of grams or swings but “as close to zero
> friction as possible with no side play.” This seems to be a recent
> change and I was told that Steinway has some kind of new system to
> achieve this.
>
> I did repin a few and it regulates well, but DW is now about 70.
> Changing hammer weight (strike weight) and adjusting front weight,
> etc. will bring it to what I want, but then I’ve changed their design
> and essentially voided warranty.
>
>
> Woah.... thats pretty heavy... As long as we both speak Stanwood...
> whats the present specs on that puppy ?
>
>
> You’re right about sound. It does make a difference, and their way
> seems to sound great. It just seems weird, and against what I’ve heard
> for years.
>
> I’ll try it. I’m fairly opened minded.
>
> Thanks again,
>
> Jim Busby
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: caut-bounces@ptg.org [mailto:caut-bounces@ptg.org] On Behalf
> Of Richard Brekne
> Sent: Saturday, September 27, 2003 1:28 PM
> To: College and University Technicians
> Subject: Re: Steinway "pinning" dilemma
>
> Jim Busby wrote:
>
>> List,
>>
>> I am NOT bashing here...I love Steinways, but I have a dilemma.
>> (BTW, I
>> just finished prepping and tuning 12 "out of the box" 1098's and
>> they
>> are indeed wonderful instruments! None of the former problems.)
>> (Hurray!)
>>
>> Here is a new question concerning pinning on the 8 new grands I
>> have. (2
>> D's, 3 B's, 2 M's, and an S.) Hammer flange pinning is around 1-2
>> grams!
>> (From 20 to 37 swings) I was ready to repin, since they simply don't
>>
>> check without roughing the tails (which I believe shouldn't be the
>> solution) Steinway says that they have a new flange design to try to
>>
>> "totally", as far as possible, reduce friction there. They advertise
>> it
>> as "permafree" (scary) because of the Teflon impregnated into the
>> bushing cloth. They say that as long as there is no side play 37
>> swings
>> is OK. But is it???
>>
> Hmm... assuming the hammers follow a solid path towards the string,
> even in hard play... it should be ok.... aside from the general
> discussion about whether or not a certain amount of friction is a good
> thing. That said...  seems like an awwwwwfull lot of swings... 25
> +.... hard to imagine thats not because of overly loose pins. I get
> quite an improvement with useing teflon powder in bushings... and have
> experienced solid pinning at 12 swings or so on occasion... but thats
> not any where near what you are describing.
>
>
> You can make the action work by making sure rep. spring is not too
> strong and by periodically roughing the tails, but conventional wisdom
>
> says we need proper friction in the right places to make an action
> feel
> and work correctly. Right?? Any thoughts on this?
>
> I like a certain amount of friction... 10 grams or so seems very
> comfortable... but then I'm rather conservative with actions. Friction
> can serve as a brake... keeps the fly away hammer syndrom from getting
> to carried away. Tho admitedly... my call on this is pretty subjective
> in nature.
>
>
> Since they are under warranty I will do as I was taught at Steinway,
> but
> my gut feeling is to repin the rail, lighten the hammers, etc. to
> achieve proper touchweight, and spend the next ten years working on
> pianos that feel "right" to me.
>
> Would be interested in hearing a follow up on these <<permafree>>
> bushings... what you think of them as you go through changing and
> servicing them over the next few months.
>
>
> I've consulted with 2 other techs who are top notch by any standard
> and
> they totally agree with me. However, two Steinway techs say their
> system
> works. How do I justify the two seemingly opposing systems and make
> the
> pianos work to my standards without bucking Steinway? Have any of you
> faced this yet?
>
> Steinways official line is that these should exhibit 10 - 35 swings
> ??... let them go for a while if that be... and see how well they
> perform... change one or two if you think its the right thing to do
> and compare. Loose pins cause sloppy sound... weak and falsy... you
> know it when you hear it.
>
>
> Thanks,
> Jim Busby RPT
> BYU
>
> --
> Richard Brekne
> RPT, N.P.T.F.
> UiB, Bergen, Norway
> mailto:rbrekne@broadpark.no
> http://home.broadpark.no/~rbrekne/ricmain.html
> http://www.hf.uib.no/grieg/personer/cv_RB.html
>
--
Richard Brekne
RPT, N.P.T.F.
UiB, Bergen, Norway
mailto:rbrekne@broadpark.no
http://home.broadpark.no/~rbrekne/ricmain.html
http://www.hf.uib.no/grieg/personer/cv_RB.html


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