List, Hmm, I'm seeing a lot of supposition in these posts. Check out most current flute catalogs and you'll see that flutes in this country are typically being designed and built at A442. Most other instruments are still built at 440 and pushed in to play at 442 (on two of my trombones it's not problem but it's a stretch on my bass trombone.) The tuning range on double reeds is somewhat limited and can cause a problem since they have the narrowest range in which to work. There is a slight timbre difference in playing at 442 instead of 440. However, from experience, many string and wind players as well as entire orchestras, drift more than we would consider acceptable anyway. Might I suggest some re-reading of Benade's and Helmholtz's writings to avoid much of the supposition? I learned many years ago from one of our esteemed colleagues, who posts regularly to this list, that you just put it in economic terms. The piano can be tuned to the desired pitch as long as someone is willing to foot the bill for two pitch raises, a final tuning, being on call to touch up and the same amount of effort budgeted to return the piano to standard pitch. Someone has to do the work and someone has to pay for it. Many of these problems are resolved when a manager starts realizing from where the bucks have to come... Allan Allan L. Gilreath, RPT Berry College - Rome, GA -----Original Message----- From: caut-bounces@ptg.org [mailto:caut-bounces@ptg.org] On Behalf Of Gary Mushlin Sent: Monday, April 12, 2004 5:19 PM To: College and University Technicians Subject: Re: A 440 Hz Standard Hi Fred, Thanks for the excellent response, including a great explanation of problems wind players experience trying to "stretch" or "shrink" their instruments in order to tune to one note. The article or specification I read indicated that A-442 wind instruments are being made for and sold in this country as well. My point here is that for piano technicians who what to take a stance against anything other than A-440, the battle looks rather hopeless. Sincerely, Gary Mushlin, MME, RPT I get the impression that many piano technicians think that On Monday, April 12, 2004, at 02:06 PM, fssturm@unm.edu wrote: > Hi Gary, > I can confirm that wind instruments are made for A-442 and for > A-445. Our > oboist lived for several years in Europe, and got a new 440 instrument > when he > returned to the US. He tells me that 442 is beyond the capability of > the 440 > instrument, that he could use shorter reed tubes and barely reach that > pitch, but > the overall intonation would suffer (ie, you have changed the entire > length of the > instrument, thus the relationships when using the various keys will > have > changed). Our clarinetist tells me (in response to my asking him) that > he has > various length barrels (a short section that goes between mouthpiece > and body) > which can set the pitch of the instrument. But he concurs about the > intonation > problems, and says if he had to play at 442 (or whatever) all the > time, he would > need a new instrument. Flautist agrees. Brass folks say the same to > varying > extents. Strings: not a problem. Does affect the timbre of the > instrument. Which is > why European orchestras (and many American) use the higher pitch. > Regards, > Fred Sturm > University of New Mexico > > Quoting Gary Mushlin <gmushlin@mindspring.com>: > >> It has been called to my attention that wind instruments are now >> being >> built to A-442. Does anyone have any any information to confirm this? >> >> Are all wind instruments being built at A-442, or just a select >> group? >> Or maybe my information is wrong. >> >> This certainly would complicate the problem. >> >> Sincerely, >> Gary Mushlin, MME, RPT >> >> >> On Monday, April 12, 2004, at 10:03 AM, stephen kabat wrote: >> >>> Jim - I tune in Cleveland, Ohio, and the Cleveland Orchestra tunes >> to >>> A-440. >>> I also had the opportunity recently to ask the head tuner at the >>> Juillard School in NYC what they tuned to, and he told me that the >> head >>> of the school wanted A-441. From the way the tech described the >>> situation, it seems to me that he simply accepted the >> administrator's >>> decision rather than make waves. I can understand that, sortof. >> Having >>> said that, though, it seems to me that there really is a confusion >> in >>> the minds of musicians and orchestra administrators between what >>> constitutes pitch and what constitutes timbre. Several years ago, >> the >>> principal violist of the Philadelphia orchestra came here to do >> some >>> recording with our piano faculty head, and he wanted our piano >> raised >>> to >>> 442, because that's what he was used to in Philly. I told him(with >> >>> flame >>> suit at the ready!!) that we tuned to 440 because if it was good >>> enough >>> for George Szell it was good enough for me! He was surprised that >> the >>> Cleveland Orchestra tuned to 440; he thought it tuned to 442. I >>> assured >>> him that no, the Cleveland Orch. tuned to 440, thank you very >> much. >>> Sorry for the length of this post, but this topic is something >>> that gets my goat. Why is this (accepting standard pitch) so hard? >> I >>> wish someone would write a scholarly article, couched in the >>> appropriate >>> ivory-tower legalize, that would convince these people to leave >> the >>> pitch at 440 and tell the string players to deal with it. Maybe >> Owen >>> Jorgensen or someone else has already done so, and we could mail >> the >>> Administrators our thoughts. >>> A Petition, as it were. >>> Regards, Steve Kabat >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: caut-bounces@ptg.org [mailto:caut-bounces@ptg.org] On Behalf >> Of >>> James Ellis >>> Sent: Monday, April 12, 2004 10:08 AM >>> To: caut@ptg.org >>> Subject: A 440 Hz Standard >>> >>> The National Symphony Orchestra from Washington DC is giving a >> concert >>> in >>> Oak Ridge TN on April 23. Their manager has informed the ORCMA >> manager >>> in >>> Oak Ridge that the piano must be tuned to A 442, and they even >> sent >>> general >>> instructions about how and when to do it. I'm just wondering: >> What >>> orchestras are there out there that play at various different >> pitches >>> other >>> than A=440 Hz, and what are those pitches? If 442 is better than >> 440, >>> why >>> then is 443 not better than 442, or 444, 445, 446, or even 447 not >> a >>> lot >>> better than any of the former? Once upon a time, I'm told, a yard >> was >>> equal to the distance between the king's nose and the tip of his >>> outstretched finger. I'm glad we got beyond that. Whatever >> happened >>> to >>> the idea of standards, anyway? It seems to me that some people >> just >>> have >>> to be different. >>> >>> Sincerely, Jim Ellis >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> caut list info: https://www.moypiano.com/resources/#archives >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> caut list info: https://www.moypiano.com/resources/#archives >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> caut list info: https://www.moypiano.com/resources/#archives >> > _______________________________________________ > caut list info: https://www.moypiano.com/resources/#archives > _______________________________________________ caut list info: https://www.moypiano.com/resources/#archives
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