Tuning stability

[Isaac OLEG]

Fred, I believe that if you warm the string rubbing them with a piece
of wood , you'll get a very fast stabilisation, and you can avoid to
bend them, bend can take place later I guess, is not it better?

The "Fenner method to stabilize fast is using about a full tone and
may be a tone and a half up to half a tone  for the 2 last sections,
but only for small groups of strings (to avoid rolling the bridge) ,
I've heard of some factory that clamp the bridge - may be only the
bass bridge ?  prior to pitch raise also).

I am unsure I'll use it on a concert piano, it change the tone of the
strings to the clearer.

Better also have a look at the tension and breaking strain we have
generally a large margin but in the treble of some brands.

Best regards.

Isaac OLEG

-----Message d'origine-----
De : caut-bounces@ptg.org [mailto:caut-bounces@ptg.org]De la part de
Fred Sturm
Envoye : lundi 29 mars 2004 16:36
A : College and University Technicians
Objet : RE: Tuning stability


Hi Jeff,
	I'd be more than a little hesitant to do a partial restring one week,
and
have the piano in a performance situation the next. If I were you, I'd
wait
until summer. It's possible to get reasonable stability that fast, but
not
at a "concert level," IMO. I've done a complete restring on a concert
instrument, and had it in performance a month later, and that was
awfully
tight. There were issues, to put it diplomatically. Not fatal, but not
exactly the sort of thing that burnishes one's reputation.
	I'd also advise replacement of bridge pins, not just CA. The pins
themselves develop grooves, which generate string noise in various
ways.
And the bridge top itself is fairly likely to have grooves where the
strings cross, especially if anyone has been tapping down strings over
the
past 30 years. If I am doing as much as restringing and dressing the
capo,
I'd just as soon get all the terminations as close to optimum as
possible.
Meaning pull pins, surface and renotch, replace with new pins - sizing
the
holes. Adds a few more hours, but worth it, IMO.
	To get pitch stability as fast as possible, my own procedure is:
1) Get moderate tension on strings
2) Clean up coils
3) Space strings to hammers (using their current positions as a guide,
evening out where appropriate) - tension is well below pitch, strings
slide
easily along capo without "planing off" the lubricant I have applied
and
shaving up little bits of buzzing-source metal
4) Pull to pitch
5) Pull to plus 25 cents
6) Work strings back of bridge: massage with brass tool, creating
positive
bends on duplex and against bridge pins.
7) Pull to plus 25 cents
8) Work strings front of bridge: massage with brass tool where
possible,
string hook where needed, to create positive bends at capo and aliquot
humps
9) One more tuning at plus 25 cents. Leave for at least a couple days
10) Massage strings vigorously. Level strings using string level. Tune
to
pitch. Tune entire piano.

Regards,
Fred Sturm
University of New Mexico

--On Saturday, March 27, 2004 12:01 PM -0700 Jeff Stickney
<jpstickney@montanadsl.net> wrote:

> Ric, Fred, Mark and all,
> 	I'm convinced that partial restringing would benefit the piano
> and my frustration level.  The question I have at this point is
this:
> If I go ahead with the work next week (spring break), would the new
> strings be stable enough to be used the next week?  I have restrung
> pianos before, and would know to seat and lift strings to establish
the
> bends (after the piano is at pitch - or maybe a little above), but I
> haven't done a partial job with the mix of old and new strings.
Would
> it be best to wait until the end of the semester when I would not be
> under the gun as much to get it done and back in action?  If you
think
> it would be doable, any other ideas to hasten the stability?  Leave
the
> piano at 442 for a few days?  Would it be best to do one section at
a
> time, rather than unstring the whole mid-range to the top at once?
If I
> use CA on the bridge pins, it would probably work better to do them
all
> at once so it can set up - or can you string fairly soon after
applying
> the CA?  Sorry to be so full of questions, but if I'm going to stick
my
> neck out a bit, I'd like to do it with the benefit of your
experience
> behind me.  I appreciate your input.  Thanks,
>
> Jeff Stickney, RPT
> University of Montana
> jpstickney@montanadsl.net
>
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: caut-bounces@ptg.org [mailto:caut-bounces@ptg.org] On
>> Behalf Of Mark Cramer
>> Sent: Friday, March 26, 2004 2:20 PM
>> To: College and University Technicians
>> Subject: RE: Tuning stability
>>
>>
>> Hi Jeff,
>>
>> I second Fred's recommendation of a partial re-stringing. I'm
>> sure you can string the treble very quickly, re-using the
>> tuning pins and servicing all bearings and terminations.
>>
>> I would also suggest servicing the bridge down to the
>> pin-size transition (Either F#4 or G#4), as the nastiest
>> false beats (in my experience anyways) are usually a 1/2
>> octave either side of the tenor/treble break.
>>
>> You will be very pleased, and what's more, will no longer be
>> tempted to second-guess your tuning abilities.
>>
>> But how about getting the authorization to do this essential work?
>>
>> > From your comments about the working situation/budgets, etc.
>> it sounds
>> > like
>> your "approach shot" will be critical. May I stick my nose in?
>>
>> I would simply write:
>>
>> "Our 19XX Steinway is presently overdue for re-stringing.
>>
>> As a result, clear stable tuning, particularlily in the
>> treble, is no longer possible, and conditions now exist for
>> string-breakage during use.
>>
>> This condition is common in the life of a concert piano,
>> after as little as six or seven year's  use, and perhaps
>> explains why this fine instrument isn't providing the
>> enjoyment it once did.
>>
>> The cost of full re-stringing would be $X,XXX.XX, and will
>> require a down-time of approximately XX days.
>>
>> Alternatively, the piano could be partially re-strung.
>>
>> This would address the specific problems we are now
>> experiencing, at a tremendous savings in cost ($XXX.XX). In
>> addition, the piano would only be out of service for X days.
>>
>> I'm confident everyone will greatly appreciate the
>> improvement in this fine piano. I wonder if  the dates; XXth
>> -  XXth  might be best, should you wish to go ahead."
>>
>> Just my 2 cents (CDN) worth Jeff. (approximately 1.5 cents U.S.)
>>
>> best regards,
>> Mark Cramer,
>> Brandon University
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: caut-bounces@ptg.org [mailto:caut-bounces@ptg.org]On
>> Behalf Of Fred Sturm
>> Sent: Friday, March 26, 2004 8:46 AM
>> To: College and University Technicians
>> Subject: Re: Tuning stability
>>
>>
>> Jeff,
>> 	The tuning instability you describe can certainly be
>> ascribed to a need for restringing. Full restring isn't
>> usually necessary. Usually the biggest problems are in the
>> capo section, caused by a combination of string and capo
>> condition. So a restring of those sections, with a good
>> dressing and lube of the capo and aliquots (front bars by
>> tuning pins), will make an enormous positive difference. At
>> the same time, I would pull all bridge pins from those
>> sections (except the few that won't get past plate struts),
>> resurface that section of bridge (get it flat, grooves gone),
>> renotch, and repin using something to size the bridgepin
>> holes (I haven't decided if there is a difference between
>> epoxy and medium to thick CA for the purpose). That will take
>> care of the false beats.
>> 	This is a very good alternative to a complete restring,
>> and produces quite good results in my experience. I have also
>> restrung down into the tenor, to the point where the bass
>> strings cross over. In that case, I brush powdered teflon on
>> the understring felt (which I can't replace in this partial
>> job), and don't bother with bridge work more than a few
>> unisons below the break.
>> 	I have had experiences very similar to what you are
>> describing. Protek on bearing points helps a bit, but only
>> restringing gets the piano back to a truly tunable state.
>> Regards, Fred Sturm University of New Mexico
>>
>>
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>
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