[CAUT] pin block strangeness

[David Love]

Yes, I hope the plate isn't moving.  The main reason I wrote what I did
was in response to the suggestion of turning the piano upside down in
order to fill the block/flange void with epoxy.  I thought that the shim
method was a lot easier and cleaner assuming that was the problem.  I
don't really think it is.  I recall a Young Chang that I took apart a
few years back.  There was such a large gap at the flange that you could
practically stick your finger in there.  In fact, the gap was so large
that one of the tuning pins at the tenor bass break almost missed the
block entirely.  It was about 2/3 of the way in the block and 1/3
grabbing air.  They had stuck what must have been a #10 tuning pin in
there to try and get it to hold.  I will say, however, the rest of the
piano held its tune pretty well.  

David Love
davidlovepianos@comcast.net 

-----Original Message-----
From: caut-bounces@ptg.org [mailto:caut-bounces@ptg.org] On Behalf Of
Greg Newell
Sent: Monday, March 14, 2005 9:19 PM
To: College and University Technicians
Subject: RE: [CAUT] pin block strangeness

David,
         I believe that we are in agreement. I do see your point,
however, 
about the possible change from a rocking block (not a rocking plate,
right?).

Greg Newell



At 12:08 AM 3/15/2005, you wrote:
>As I said, I don't think that the bad fit is causing the instability
>assuming there are plate bushings.  But I suppose if the plate were
>rocking, and the treble were tuned first, then pulling the bass tension
>up might cause the block to rotate toward the bass side and increase
the
>tension on the treble.  Idle speculation though.
>
>David Love
>davidlovepianos@comcast.net
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: caut-bounces@ptg.org [mailto:caut-bounces@ptg.org] On Behalf Of
>Greg Newell
>Sent: Monday, March 14, 2005 8:52 PM
>To: College and University Technicians
>Subject: RE: [CAUT] pin block strangeness
>
>
>David,
>          How could this possibly make a difference? Didn't the
original
>post say that the piano was found to be SHARP? How could the pin block
/
>
>plate flange fit cause the piano to go sharp? I'm not even sure that I
>would agree to it being possible for it to go flat but definitely not
>sharp!
>
>Greg Newell
>
>At 10:42 AM 3/14/2005, you wrote:
> >If the piano has tuning pin bushings it probably doesn't matter about
> >the flange fit unless the plate is rocking.  If you want to secure it
> >without turning the piano upside down and pouring epoxy in, you can
cut
> >a bunch of thin wedges out of scrap pinblock material or maple or
> >anything hard really.  Try and cut them with only the slightest taper
> >and with the thinner edge just slightly under the gap size.  You want
>to
> >be able to insert them as far as possible but have the most contact
top
> >to bottom that you can.  Put glue on the pinblock side and insert
them
> >along the flange line.  Tap them in place with a mallet.  Don't
forget
> >to cover the keybed with newspapaper.  Wipe off the excess, wait 20
> >minutes and trim them with a flexible Japanese pull saw.  Then try
the
> >tuning again and see if it makes a difference.
> >
> >David Love
> >davidlovepianos@comcast.net
> >
> >-----Original Message-----
> >From: caut-bounces@ptg.org [mailto:caut-bounces@ptg.org] On Behalf Of
> >Christopher Purdy
> >Sent: Monday, March 14, 2005 7:01 AM
> >To: College and University Technicians
> >Subject: [CAUT] pin block strangeness
> >
> >I ran into a new one the other day.  A local dealer has pianos made
for
> >them by Dong Bei in China.  I was asked to make a service call on a
> >small grand that was sold to a church.  This was my first encounter
> >with one of these pianos.  The local tuner was having trouble with
> >tuning stability and they asked me to have a go at it.
> >
> >Overall, it looked fairly well built and pin torque was very
> >consistent.  String rendering had a mushy feel to it but I was able
to
> >set pins.  It seemed stable while I tuned and sounded like a million
> >bucks when I was finished.  The other tuner had told the dealer that
> >the piano was going out of tune even while he was working on it so I
> >was very meticulous with my tuning and was looking everywhere for an
> >answer.
> >
> >Then I found something that blew me away.  I checked the pin block
fit
> >and found that the block does not even touch the flange, at any
point.
> >Not only could I put a business card in the gap, bass to treble, but
> >there was a huge gap.  I could have put the thickness of three or
four
> >cards in it with no problem.
> >
> >The previous tuner had just tuned the piano eight days before and
when
> >I got there the treble was a good 25 cents sharp.  I do not know this
> >tuner so I can't speculate about his experience. I asked a ton of
> >questions about humidity and temperature fluctuations and I gather
that
> >it has been pretty stable.  They do not turn off the heat during the
> >week, etc.   I am going back this week to check my tuning.  I can't
> >imagine it's going to be stable with no attempt whatsoever at pin
block
> >fitting.
> >
> >Have any of you seen anything like this?  I know there is a lot of
> >griping about the pianos coming out of China but the rest of the
piano
> >really looked fairly well made.  The piano is named Steinhauer and is
> >made exclusively for this dealer.  I would be very interested in
> >hearing any experiences you may have had like this.  If I go back
there
> >and my tuning is FUBAR I am going to have to condemn this bird.  I
have
> >a good relationship with this dealer but I smell trouble.
> >
> >Mitch, have you dealt with any of these yet?
> >
> >Chris
> >_______________________________________________
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> >
> >
> >_______________________________________________
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>
>Greg Newell
>Greg's piano Forté
>mailto:gnewell@ameritech.net
>
>
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>
>
>_______________________________________________
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Greg Newell
Greg's piano Forté
mailto:gnewell@ameritech.net 


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