[CAUT] lacquer

[David Ilvedson]

Explain Zahn's viscosity cup?

By the way, you don't measure dip with a karate chop or a feather.   Whatever "normal" depression you use just has to be consistent from note to note...

David Ilvedson, RPT
Pacifica, California



----- Original message ----------------------------------------
From: "Cramer at brandonu.ca, Mark" <Cramer at brandonu.ca>
To: caut at ptg.org
Received: 6/18/2006 7:44:58 PM
Subject: Re: [CAUT] lacquer


>Hi all,

>apparently water-white lacquer will also yellow in time, 
>however this shows up mainly on the hammer's sides, so for 
>me it's become a reasonable whatever.

>As for ratios from 3:1 all the way up to 8:1, and 
>beyond... where's the science in that? How can we possibly 
>discuss ratios when solids contents can double without 
>notice!?

>(kind of like 10 mm key-dip isn't it? Do you measure with 
>a feather or a karate chop?)

>Anyhow, thinning (IMHO) is to acheive a consistant and 
>specific viscosity (ultimate ratio of solids to thinners, 
>no matter the solids of the original product) that will 
>penetrate at some idealized rate and leave an ideal 
>concentration of solids behind. 

>If we honestly see value in that kind of consistancy (and 
>I do, though believe the actual "window" to be fairly 
>wide), could we not just throw out the potentially 
>useless, if not outright misleading discussion of ratios, 
>and talk "viscosity" instead?

>i.e.: 10 seconds in a Zahns viscosity cup.

>What would this solve?

>1.) You'd never worry about the "ratio" of some hardener 
>you'd mixed up a year ago, you would merely "time" it and 
>thin accordingly.

>2.) Want more bang? Add lacquer to slow it down by a 
>specific percentage (measured in seconds), and document 
>your results. Now you have "real science" you can actually 
>share.

>3.) As for the factory episode Fred relates, the hammer 
>guy would've noticed immediately that the "gold standard" 
>of felt baptism took "twice as much thinner" to acheive.

>He could've either reported this immediately and known the 
>cause, or thinned accordingly, minding his own business, 
>and achieved continuity throughout the entire process. 

>I believe ISO accreditation (registering quality process)
>is all about preventing even the possiblity of "the above" 
>from occuring. (anyone recall the threads about pre-over-
>lacquered replacement hammers several months ago?)

>A $6.00 visc. cup then, should be a great investment in 
>preventing such a far-reaching manufacturing oversight 
>from "re-occuring."    

>So where's my visc. cup?  Uh, er, I'm one of those old 
>timers who learned to time the drips off the end of a 
>screwdriver... and still waiting for ISO approval. ;>)

>blissfully yours,
>Mark Cramer,
>Brandon University


> 

> 




















>  



>> Tom,
>> 
>> Purchasing the one gallon from U.S. Cellulose was not a 
>problem last  
>> year. I used Parks for many years and indeed it works 
>well. The main  
>> thing I wanted to get away from was the yellowing. This 
>problem was  
>> not so bad on some hammers, worst one others. After 
>seeing the  
>> lacquer Eric Schandall was using in the Steinway classes 
>I just had  
>> to try the water white nitro. I will stick with it for 
>now. Until  
>> something better comes along of course. :-)
>> 
>> Don
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Don McKechnie
>> Piano Technician
>> Ithaca College
>> dmckech at ithaca.edu
>> 607-274-3908
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On Jun 16, 2006, at 10:45 PM, caut-request at ptg.org wrote:
>> 
>> > Hi, Don, and List -
>> >
>> > Thanks for the WoodWeb link.  That was very helpful 
>stuff.
>> >
>> > I have used materials from US Cellulose to good 
>effect, both for  
>> > spraying as finish and for voicing.  I recall having 
>plenty of  
>> > difficulties dealing with them, however: wrong product 
>shipped,  
>> > slow shipping, very expensive shipping.
>> >
>> > Additionally, I'll second the support for the Parks 
>lacquer  
>> > products, for voicing anyway.  (I've not used these 
>for  
>> > finishing.)  In a pinch I got a quart of the clear 
>brushing lacquer  
>> > from a small-town Ace Hardware store and have been 
>using it with  
>> > fine results for some time.  (A quart lasts quite a 
>long time for  
>> > voicing work!  And I don't think I'd be concerned 
>about shelf life  
>> > on this stuff.)
>> >
>> > Best regards,
>> >
>> > ~ Tom McNeil ~
>> > Vermont Piano Restorations
>> >
>> > 346 Camp Street
>> > Barre, VT 05641
>> > (802) 476-7072
>> 
>>