[CAUT] was caf now seasonal sb failure

Greg Newell gnewell@ameritech.net
Wed, 01 Mar 2006 14:38:56 -0500


I doubt that thin CA will do much for you. If any 
tone is possible to be restored I would use 
epoxy. You may have to orient the piano such that 
the epoxy will flow into the separation. Just to 
be clear I'm talking about a failed glue joint 
between the board and rim NOT a crack in the board.

Greg



At 02:16 PM 3/1/2006, you wrote:
>Greg, Ron, and other Soundboard Experts,
>       If you do find a soundboard to rim crack with chunks of aging excess
>glue collar flaking away, and you don't want to rebuild it what then?  Will
>thin CA glue squirted into the crack do anything to restore tone?
>-Mike Jorgensen
>
>
>On 3/1/06 2:09 PM, "Greg Newell" <gnewell@ameritech.net> wrote:
>
> >
> > Bob,
> >          Sorry for the delay, but yes, that's
> > exactly how I would check for it other than visually where you can.
> >
> > best,
> > Greg
> >
> >
> > At 01:06 AM 3/1/2006, you wrote:
> >> Good idea to check this.  Is this best checked
> >> underneath the SB with a palatte knife or similar for
> >> a solid connection between the two?
> >>
> >> I know SB crack is in some sense a cosmetic
> >> distraction, but does speak about how dried out the
> >> board is getting to cause separation.
> >>
> >> Bob Hull
> >>
> >> --- Greg Newell <gnewell@ameritech.net> wrote:
> >>
> >>> May sound like a beginners answer but have you
> >>> checked the soundboard's glue joint connection to
> >>> the inner rim?
> >>>
> >>> Greg Newell
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> At 12:08 AM 3/1/2006, you wrote:
> >>>> The catastrophic action failure thread may have
> >>> merged
> >>>> into a discussion of seasonal loss of crown/db and
> >>>> therefore I guess sustain/tonal quality.
> >>>>
> >>>> Here are observations about two terrible sounding
> >>> NY
> >>>> D's I am servicing; Plus, a question about finding
> >>> the
> >>>> culprit.
> >>>>
> >>>> #1. I went to a recital this evening at one of the
> >>>> univ. for which I do piano service.  The NY D (mid
> >>>> 1970's era) was more dreadful than usual,
> >>> particularly
> >>>> in tonal fullness.  There was the initial splatter
> >>> of
> >>>> sound, quite thin and short, in octaves 5 and 6.
> >>> It
> >>>> sounds this way I guess at other times of the year
> >>> but
> >>>> I really noticed it tonight sitting out in the
> >>>> audience.  When I tune, I zero in so much on the
> >>>> tuning that I turn off my voicing perception.
> >>> There's
> >>>> no money in their budget for improvements at this
> >>>> time, unfortunately.
> >>>>
> >>>> As I sat there, I wanted to investigate, does this
> >>>> piano need, voicing or new hammers or a new board?
> >>>> Hammers have been replaced (by a previous tech) and
> >>>> aren't that worn.  The SB has a crack in it that is
> >>>> definitely more visible during this time of the
> >>> year.
> >>>> Yesterday when I tuned somewhere here in the area
> >>> it
> >>>> was 28% rh at 71 deg.  Could be a little different
> >>> I
> >>>> suppose from location to location.
> >>>>
> >>>> #2. The second D, which is bothering me greatly is
> >>> in
> >>>> a church.  It's also a 1970's model.  I put all new
> >>>> hammers and wippens in it replacing teflon parts
> >>> and
> >>>> problems about 2 years ago.  I hoped for great
> >>>> improvement in tone.  While I got some, the piano
> >>>> still lacks power terribly.  I am in the process of
> >>>> adding keytop/acetone which is giving some help but
> >>>> still not what I want.  When I pluck a string it's
> >>> not
> >>>> much or any different than the hammer strike.  A
> >>>> rocker gauge on the bridge of this piano indicates
> >>>> there is downbearing. This one has a Dampp Chaser,
> >>> the
> >>>> univ. one doesn't.
> >>>>
> >>>> Do you always check crown/downbearing a particular
> >>>> way: under the board with a thread; rocker gauge on
> >>>> bridge; thread from agraffe to hitch pin; Lowell
> >>> gauge
> >>>> or other? I used different methods, but wonder
> >>> which
> >>>> gives the best reading.
> >>>>
> >>>> Bob Hull
> >>>>
> >>>> --- Ron Nossaman <rnossaman@cox.net> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>>> Regarding Steinway, the loose pinning
> >>> (currently
> >>>>> 20% RH at
> >>>>>> this particular venue), coupled with raising
> >>> the
> >>>>> hammer
> >>>>>> line several mm (key-dip; a very skinny .400")
> >>>>> brought
> >>>>>> about the dread CAF on several notes. (see
> >>> Eric's
> >>>>> test)
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Something I've been meaning to ask. New York
> >>>>> Steinways, I
> >>>>> assume? 20%RH at 70° puts soundboards at 4.5%MC.
> >>>>> That's at or
> >>>>> below (depending on who you talk to) what they
> >>> were
> >>>>> originally
> >>>>> dried down to for compression crowning with flat
> >>>>> ribs. There
> >>>>> shouldn't be a lick of crown anywhere in these
> >>>>> pianos in these
> >>>>> conditions, and they ought to be mostly killer
> >>>>> octave and
> >>>>> sound thoroughly terrible right now. Do they?
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Ron N
> >>>>> _______________________________________________
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> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
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> >>>
> >>> Greg Newell
> >>> Greg's piano Forté
> >>> mailto:gnewell@ameritech.net
> >>>
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> >>>
> >>
> >>
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> > Greg Newell
> > Greg's piano Forté
> > mailto:gnewell@ameritech.net
> >
> > _______________________________________________
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Greg Newell
Greg's piano Forté
mailto:gnewell@ameritech.net 


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