[CAUT] Stretch

[rwest1 at unl.edu]

Numbers, numbers, numbers.  Yes, they can be helpful, but do they  
adequately represent a piano tuning.  Look at it this way. (If you  
don't want to wade through the first part, jump to "Conclusion" below)

F#4 aural tests = 2 beats to C#4, nearly pure to B3, 1 beat faster  
than D3F#3, this makes a stretched octave.  If you had to do the  
equivalent test by the numbers it would take several measurements,  
and the resulting numbers would probably not end up exactly the same  
figure.

Now look at B4.  Since F#4 was stretched a little bit, F#4/B4 can be  
2 beats and the E4/B4 could be nearly pure.  The octave could have 1  
beat without doing any harm and the 10th (G3/B4) could be one beat  
faster than the third (G3/B3).  If you tried to figure all that out  
by the numbers, I think you'd get different figures, and those  
numbers would vary from piano to piano.  But aurally, those checks  
lock in a note.  Go too far with any interval and it will show up in  
the others.

Now look at the B5.  Since the B4 was stretched, it would seem that  
the B5 will also be able to be pushed high.  But wait.  What about  
the double octave.  Since the B3 is below A4, the B3 is actually  
stretched a little low.  Therefore if you push the B5 too high, it  
won't fit with the B3.  But the 10th/17th can be a little wide, with  
the 17th a beat faster than the tenth, which is already a beat faster  
than the G3/B3 third.

Now look at the B6.  It can be stretched higher than the other  
octaves because the double octave B4/B6 uses the B4 which was an  
upwardly stretched note.  The triple octave can be nearly pure  
because the B3 is stretched slightly low.  The only octave to really  
suffer is the single octave B5/B6.  But that octave is also a limiter  
because no matter how you might want to stretch, there is a limit to  
stretching that single octave and there's a limit to how fast the  
17th (G4/B6) can really be.

Conclusion:
All of these aural tests would be possible to calculate, but  
difficult and time consuming to do, especially for every note of the  
piano.  Numbers and measuring don't, IMHO, capture the essence of  
tuning.  ETD's can crunch some numbers, average them out, and give an  
excellent calculated result, but whether or not those calculations  
actually fit the piano depends on what you hear.

  Years ago I chose to stick with the aural methods because there was  
more satisfaction in it.  The pattern I described above is what I  
strive for because it seems to be what the piano "wants" and I think  
it's safe to say that I'm not the only technician to aim for the same  
pattern.  In fact that's the core of my contention that there really  
is only one way to tune a concert grand.

If you can agree that most technicians tune the middle 75 to 80 notes  
the same, then why haven't we described that pattern? To me, that's  
the standard that any technician should know about and strive for.   
Going by the numbers can lead to confusion, because the numbers can  
create a construct that doesn't really fit a piano.

Also, see comment in text below

Richard West

On Feb 4, 2007, at 12:38 PM, Jon Page wrote:

> >For example in tuning a Steinway "D" my C8 ends up at 43.92 cents
> >and on a "B" 34.76 cents.  That means something to me.

It doesn't mean much to me without knowing the context of that  
number, and for me context is everything in piano tuning.  75 cents  
might be what C8 would have to be if it were pure with C5.  The  
number could be 45 cents if C8 were pure with C6.  The number could  
be lower yet if the single octave C7/C8 were pure.

The numbers in ETD's can be isolated and misleading in the total  
context of the whole piano.


> I've heard
> >of people using a stretch that gets to 75 cents on C8 and that  
> seems pretty s-t-r-e-t-c-h-e-d to me.
>
> Me too. Tuned a rental D where C8 was +60c,As I recall I tuned it  
> with +43c.
>
> recently
> Baldwin SD, +43.12
> S&S D,        +33.22
>         B,        +29.76
> Yamaha C7,+32.21
>               C2 +32.6
>
> -- 
>
> Regards,
>
> Jon Page
>

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