I have been experimenting with Historical Tunings the last few years, and have observed an effect which has yet to be mentioned in this discussion.
I had the privilege of attending a seminar a few years back in which Ed Foote had prepared a Steinway D in what I remember to be a Valotti-Young temperament. It was the first time I had heard anyone play in other than ET to my knowledge. Enid Katahn was the pianist, and played the Adagio Cantabile from Beethoven's "Pathetique" Sonata. Just beautiful.
Her remarks after playing followed the lines of much of the present discussion, about "tension" and feeling a sense of "home" when the harmony returned to the tonic. I noticed the same horizontal effect, but I also was very impressed with what might be called a "vertical" or melodic effect.
In other words, certain melody notes had the effect of a sweet vibrato much like a violinist would do. The note I particularly remember is the Ab (the third of the f minor triad) in the 3rd measure. I have listened carefully to the same melody note in ET, and the "vibrato" simply isn't there.
There was a system of harmonic analysis devised by Hindemith, in which the notes of a chord ("vertical" harmony) are assigned a numeric value. I wonder if we would do well to try to measure the effects of HT versus ET in a similar fashion.
Chopin seemed to revel in this kind of thing. There are places, for example in the middle section of the Ballade in g minor, in which an alto note appears out of nowhere, a fourth below the melody note. In ET the pianist has a hard time making any sense out of this, but in Kirnberger (just as an example), these alto notes sing out just like the little old ladies in a church choir. Ditto for quite a few places in the Sonatas.
Say what you will, composers in the past must have had a better sense of discrimination (as a general observation) than most of us have today.
That's my 2 cents worth (pun intended).
Dan Rembold
Auburn University
--- On Fri, 1/23/09, A440A at aol.com <A440A at aol.com> wrote:
> From: A440A at aol.com <A440A at aol.com>
> Subject: Re: [CAUT] temperament for Schubert
> To: caut at ptg.org
> Date: Friday, January 23, 2009, 11:37 AM
> Greetings,
> Inre a violinist really likeing the Coleman 11 tunings,
> Fred writes:
>
> "
> > " I have no doubt you are reporting an experience
> accurately. As to how
> > to interpret it, I am not so sure I agree with your
> take, that the
> > temperament prompted the praise, particularly
> considering the
> > statement "the overtones were perfectly lined
> up." <snip>"
> >
> I am not too sure he was really talking about the
> overtones, (more below).
>
> > "But in any
> > case, no uneven, circulating temperament will line up
> overtones
> > overall any better than ET. In fact, an excellent
> argument can be made
> > for the idea that ET is the very best temperament from
> the point of
> > view of alignment of partials, especially with
> inharmonicity of
> > modern pianos in the picture.""
> >
> I don't know, I think we look at alignment
> perhaps differently than the
> unfretted musician, who, I suspect, is actually talking
> about being able to
> hit pitches by a natural sense that happen to be consonant
> with the piano
> accompanying them.
>
> > " My own interpretation is that the piano in
> question had a very high
> > standard of unison tuning. The highest standard of
> unison tuning is by
> > no means common, and it is quite possible that your
> tuning would stand
> > out in the experience of the violinist in this regard.
> ,snip>
> >
> > umm, I dont' think I'm that good. This
> particular violinist plays all
> over the world, his accompanyist is head of the piano dept.
> at the Royal Ac
> ademy of Scotland, and I am going to assume they have
> experience with the best
> tuners there are, out there. I think it was something
> else.
>
>
> > >> Now as to how precisely musicians match
> pitch (particularly to a
> > harpsichord), that is another question, and it may be
> that the level
> > of precision is low enough that it doesn't really
> matter. I suspect
> > this is the case. But in any event, one fixed pitch is
> the same as
> > another in being an artificial fixed target from the
> point of view of
> > the flexible pitch instrument. None will match what
> the flexible pitch
> > instrument would do in other contexts. ET has the
> benefit of being
> > very predictable and familiar, whatever its other sins
> <G>
> >
> I have a idea that what the violinist was actually
> referring to comes from
> the Coleman tuning providing a tonal center, and once his
> ear recognized the
> landscape,(harmonoscape?), the distances and widths of
> intevals became his
> landmarks. ie, as Von Weber's score modulated out of a
> more consonant harmony,
> the soloist instinctively felt the need for more sharpness
> in the thirds, as it
> resolved into consonance,(which most music of this period
> seems to do, rarely
> attempting a resolution moving away from C), the soloist
> instinctively
> softened his "sharpening". This addresses the use
> of "expression" in intonation,(see
> P. Casals thoughts on "expressive intonation").
> Let's assume that the composer actually did write
> to take advantge of
> key character, which I submit is not implausible. If so,
> we find that the
> modulations tend to support the thought that a more
> expressive key, (higher
> dissonance, more color, more tension, however we want to
> define it), would be a
> better venue for heightening musical tension. As I
> remember it, the build-up
> of tension in this piece proceded through increasingly
> tempered keys, and
> when it came time for musical resolution, the move was back
> into consonance.
> This is common to much piano music of the classical era,
> also.
> I believe the violinist senses this, and plays more
> just intervals in the
> calm sections, and wider intervals in the tense passages.
> This could be
> happening without conscious thought, since our brains
> handle more information
> than our consciousness could ever hope to entertain, (I
> think the same parameter
> may be at work in a pianist's sense of aftertouch, but
> that is a whole
> different thread which we can run into the ground later!).
> I believe the Coleman
> tuning just happened to "bend" the piano's
> harmony in the same way that the score
> prodded him to be expressive.
> I am going to continue with this via the string faculty
> here, but I do
> know that it is very easy to scare them with talk of
> technically measuring
> intonation. They often don't really know why they play
> non-just intervals when the
> score increases tension,(and often dynamic level), but they
> usually know
> exactly why they strive for Just intonation in ensemble
> playing of music that is
> calm and serene. The members of the Blair Quartet all
> agree that the entire
> intonation question changes as soon as a piaon joins the
> mix. I think they may
> find something easier to accept if the piano is tuned in a
> WT for performance
> of the music written in the WT era, which I consider to be
> 1700-late 1880's.
>
> I have nothing to be dogmatic about with any of this,
> just investigating
> what happens when I manage to get the barriers of status
> quo lowered a little
> bit. Universities are supposed to be places to explore, it
> is a shame that so
> many members of academia get fossilized in place, rigid in
> outlook, and
> reduced to protecting their history, even if it means
> turning a deaf ear to new
> concepts. Shucks, life is short, I don't wanna do the
> same thing over and over
> and over, at least 'til I have tried as much new stuff
> as possible.
> Regards,
>
> Ed Foote RPT
> P.s. Emmanuel Ax will be here NEXT week, so will have to
> wait on that bit
> of question.
>
>
> **************
> A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in
> just 2 easy steps!
> (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1215855013x1201028747/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072%26hmpgID=
> 62%26bcd=DecemailfooterNO62)
This PTG archive page provided courtesy of Moy Piano Service, LLC