I don't think you can be too careful. Do mention every precaution you can think. The students will decide that only some of it is worth paying attention to. (I speak from years of experience.) It wouldn't hurt to mention to them how much a single instrument costs. So many pianists (adults included) see pianos as big sturdy machines and don't realize how delicate and vulnerable they can be. I can see some of your responsibility in educating to be along these lines. Good luck and let us know how it turns out. jeannie _____ From: caut-bounces at ptg.org [mailto:caut-bounces at ptg.org] On Behalf Of reggaepass at aol.com Sent: Friday, July 23, 2010 8:40 AM To: caut at ptg.org Subject: Re: [CAUT] pushing pianos This responsibility should not be passed along to students under any circumstances. It will not teach them anything about the proper care or treatment of a piano. It is exploiting the students for an easy solution. Don't take on this responsibility. Ultimately you will be the responsible one. You might want to reconsider taking this on. Hi Jeannie, Thank you for your caution and concern. You are absolutely right that I/we are ultimately responsible for situations like this, and even if we aren't we are likely going to be the ones tasked with (cleaning up after the parade." Allow me to clarify something: For the summer high school music camp that takes place here at CalArts, I am always present when a piano is being moved. One has to go a fair distance, and the piano instructor (himself a piano technician!) wants to use the opportunity to teach whatever can be taught to pianists who find themselves pushing pianos around. So far, I don't believe anyone has mentioned the first thing that I tell people who are helping me, which is not to push from the lid, but from the rim (corners of the keyboard end). Am I being unnecessarily careful here? Thanks, Alan Eder -----Original Message----- From: Jeannie Grassi <jcgrassi at earthlink.net> To: caut at ptg.org Sent: Fri, Jul 23, 2010 8:14 am Subject: Re: [CAUT] pushing pianos Hi Alan, I have to agree with David, here. Why is the piano being moved this way? I can also share a similar experience to what Keith related. The local school decided that it was up to the custodial crew to be in charge of moving the grand piano from one building outside, through a parking lot and to another building for a performance. The custodians couldn't be bothered so they told the teacher to be in charge . He recruited some students (high school) to take care of it. To make the story shorter: There was a slight slope,.. there was a pothole, ..in a flash there was a stage dolly without a piano and a piano ..and there were 3 broken legs and lyre and crushed trapwork in addition to numerous other problems. One student barely avoided being crushed. The parents were livid (as well they should have been). The teacher? Angry with the kids for screwing up and making him look bad. (He is no longer teaching there.) This responsibility should not be passed along to students under any circumstances. It will not teach them anything about the proper care or treatment of a piano. It is exploiting the students for an easy solution. Don't take on this responsibility. Ultimately you will be the responsible one. You might want to reconsider taking this on. Jeannie Grassi, RPT Bainbridge Island, WA _____ From: <mailto:caut-bounces at ptg.org> caut-bounces at ptg.org [ <mailto:caut-bounces at ptg.org?> mailto:caut-bounces at ptg.org] On Behalf Of David Skolnik Sent: Wednesday, July 21, 2010 6:42 PM To: <mailto:caut at ptg.org> caut at ptg.org Subject: Re: [CAUT] pushing pianos OK there Alan - You've had some interesting and funny replies, so let me be a bit of a Debbie Downer. WHY? Why are you moving a (grand?) piano a long distance on a dolly? Why are you employing (?) a group of high school students? Do the kids have insurance? Do you, or your institution have insurance? Do their parents know? I like Ron's reply, but it should have looked more like this: Inadvisable. If there's ANY way not to, don't. If not: Supervise! Someone of legal age needs to be there to fill out the accident report paperwork. If there's ANY way not to, don't. Lid down, fall board closed. I know, but it's not necessarily obvious to high school kids, some of whom have likely never thought before. If there's ANY way not to, don't. No more than three touching the piano at any given time. Trade off as they get tired, with the rest of the crew over there out of the way. Steering and speed control by mob whim can quickly become the end of piano function as we know it. Also dangerous for the moving units, whether they understand that or not. If there's ANY way not to, don't. And so on... And, of course, if there is any chance at all of some calamitous mishap, you should, obviously, have someone filming it. There has to be some good to come out of all this. David Skolnik Hastings on Hudson, NY At 11:21 AM 7/21/2010, you wrote: In a few days, I will be moving a piano on a stage dolly a long distance with a group of high school piano students. We are not turning it on its side on a skid board, but simply pushing it. What collective wisdom should I be to impart to these impressionable youths about how the do-s and don't-s of pushing around pianos? Thanks, Alan Eder _____ I am using the Free version of <http://www.spamfighter.com/len> SPAMfighter. SPAMfighter has removed 565 of my spam emails to date. Do you have a <http://www.spamfighter.com/SLOW-PCfighter?cid=sigen> slow PC? Try free scan! _____ I am using the Free version of <http://www.spamfighter.com/len> SPAMfighter. SPAMfighter has removed 566 of my spam emails to date. 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