Hi, Horace So really what they were dipped in was wax solid at room temperature, instead of what we'd usually call mineral oil, with the addition of a little bit of whale oil in the last stage of manufacture? Was the hot wax dip done before the bushings were put in, and the whale oil after? Do you think that various lubricants added later in the field worsen the situation? I remember a piano in Stockton, which I tried to keep going till the owner could afford new parts (after moving to Hawaii .. given the cost of moving to Hawaii, one sees a certain order in her priorities.) I used the "zapper" to get the thing moving again -- it was pretty well stationary, and a dark walnut brown. Oily substance bubbled and sizzled out of the flanges. I presume this was almost certainly a mixture of lubricants added at various times in attempts to keep the piano working. If only the wippen support flanges and the hammer flanges were dipped, then presumably if the paraffin worsened the verdigris, the other two center pins in the action (and those in the back action, too) would have been relatively free of it, unless the piano was "tropicalized"? I remember seeing a Packard upright from the deep south. It was a mess, from various attempts to deal with sluggish hammers -- repeated lubrication turning everything to gum till the hammers stood in air, and then someone doused it with alcohol, causing the leathers to shrink and warp and turn to rocks. But the other centers were perfectly all right, which led me to think that this was "tuner damage." Susan On 1/7/2011 4:59 PM, Horace Greeley wrote: > > Hi, > > Sorry...just catching up on this. > > At 04:12 PM 1/7/2011, you wrote: >> On 1/7/2011 3:54 PM, Ed Sutton wrote: >>> This fron Allen Wright in London, concerning whether he finds >>> verdigris in European-made Steinways: >>> >>> "actually no, I don't, now that you mention it." >> >> Presumably, they never dipped the flanges in tallow? > > The tallow thing is a very long-standing myth. Except in very small > amounts to lubricate springs, tallow (either sheep or bear) was not > used in the action department. While tallow was used (bear, when > available) was much earlier in production and was used in the > trapwork. Tallow not only gums up quickly, but also leaves > interesting odors as it decays...try mixing up a batch of tallow and > paraffin wax in a pot on your kitchen stove and letting is simmer for > a few days. > > Paraffin came to be used in what someone appropriately noted as S&S' > continual search for tight, low-friction bearing surfaces. The > buckets into which parts (flanges only, unless the piano was being > "tropicalized") were dipped were filled with melted paraffin wax, > which was not mixed with tallow. As the action/piano reached the end > of final tone regulation, a minute amount of whale oil was added to > the hammer and wippen support flanges. > > Reading through this thread, it seems to me that the chronology of use > of different solutions, chemicals, and procedures for center pinning > and related issues supports the idea that S&S, among others, was > looking for ways to compensate with a target that was (and is) moving > through at least four dimensions. After WWII, the quality of a > variety of materials essential to making pianos "the way they used to" > either diminished or evaporated. Most makers of the period of the > 50's and 60's were dealing with bushing cloth that was clearly pretty > substandard (wool felt and cloth with less lanolin, no whale oil, wood > that no longer really met traditional specifications, etc). Even some > of the attempts made in Europe (one thinks of graphite impregnated > cloth) weren't all that successful. So, it's not all that far afield > to think that folks were scrambling to try to find substitutes so that > they could stay in business. > > Earlier in the discussion either Fred Sturm or Ed Sutton noted the > differences between differing kinds of parrafin. As I think was noted > then, there is (once again) so much cross-use of the same term to > describe various materials that it can all become a big muddle. One > quick review is the one in the Wikipedia at: > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paraffin > > Best. > > Horace > > >
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