Loose pinblock

[Richard Moody]

Les and List.
	Now that I need some vital info, I probably have to humbly
appoligize and kya for past perceived and real snydeasisms,
inflametory remarks, and caustic comments.  Do I hear a few crying
"Baloney"?  Ah at least I didn't make it into your kill files.   ...
 Oh that did it ??

	I came upon a "loose pinblock" where all of the bottom pins are
loose and the top two rows are tight.  Well at least the 20 or so I
tested.  The pins are far enough in so they shouldn't be driven. This
is in an upright, an old Adam Schaff. Its too far gone, SB, esp for
rebuilding, unless the case really is Rosewood.
	 I can't see the laminations I want to look at, so I am wondering If
removing a loose pin and borrowing a otoscope might shed some light
on a hidden problem.  Anyone come across this problem and found what
caused it?  Remeber the top pins are so tight it would never cross
your mind to consider tightner, but the bottom pins, its like they
are in a different block.  If I were replacing the  block I could saw
it apart. Perhaps those of you who have replaced pinblocks for this
reason did a post mortem?
	It will get Garfields.  But I have never put Garfields  on just one
row.  The top pins are so tight I am fearful of getting them too
tight.  Probably try a few and see what happens.  The piano is in a
home so I don't have that much time to experiment.
	And speaking of experiments, there are no bushings, and at last was
temped to try CA. I never considered CA after hearing of it, because
I thought, "Oh it will just wick into the bushings and never get down
where it belongs.  Also I am fearful of producing jumping pins.
There has been some written on CA and tuning pins, if the authors
have it still at hand and could email it, I sure would appreciate.  I
would look in the archives,  but I have limited time from my ISP and
will have to budget that for next month.
	Thanks for every thing
Richard Moody


> From: Les Smith <lessmith@buffnet.net>
> To: pianotech@byu.edu
> Subject: Re: Loose pinblock
> Date: Monday, April 14, 1997 1:57 PM
>

>  Don't set the pins first and then use the PBR. Although
> a lot has been writtn recently about the use of CA glue, the pins
in
> your piano sound so loose that I think you might be better off
using
> Garfield's Pinblock Restorer, applied with a hypo-oiler.

	use hypo-oiler should be in bold caps  rm

>If the pins
> are really loose and you don't have to contend with plate bushings,
> you can make the first treatment full-strength--that is without
dilut-
> ing the Garfield's 50/50 with alcohol as is usually done. If the
piano
> does have plate bushings around the tuning pins, putting a small
hole
> in them on the *keyboard* side of the bushing will often aid
absorption
> into the pinblock.
	My concern about CA
>Make sure you remove the action BEFORE doping the
> block.
	Even in an upright. You will want to do some chipping to see how it
holds
rm.   Ever try to remove an action when the piano is on its back?? rm
>If you think Garfield's works well on tuning pins, just wait
> till you can see how it can tighten up action centers! :)
	Supposidly works on loose B check wires and CR pins, worth checking
out. rm
>Initially,
> go over the pinblock at least twice with the Garfield's, or until
the
> pinblock won't absorb any more. Give it a week to do its stuff. If
the
> pins are still somewhat loose, give it another treatment and wait
another
> week. Sometimes multiple applications are required, but Garfields
has
> withstood the test of time and many technicians swear by it.
	Ignoring the directions for a second treatment is probably why there
are those who say it doesn't work.   rm
> pins feel tight enough, you can go through and set the pins a
little
> deeper into the block as extra insurance.
	Well they can't be too close...  rm
	>Do this with the action OUT
> of the piano and use a pinblock support jack under the block as you
are
> pounding the pins in. If you don't, your pounding may cause the
block
> to delaminate or separate, especially in older pianos. I've seen
pianos
> where the action couldn't be removed because some bozo technician
had
> started pounding on tuning pins without supporting the block, and
the
> lower laminations were sitting on the hammer flanges. Don't let
this
> happen to you!
> Before attempting any repair on this instrument, I suggest that you
re-
> move the action and inspect the pinblock VERY CAREFULLY. You
mentioned
> that it appeared as if another technician had already attempted to
set
> some of the pins. It's possible that the pinblock may already be
damaged
> beyond any hope of repair, if he chose to pound in those pins
without
> supporting the pinblock first. So check it out thoroughly for
damage
> BEFORE attempting any repair. If your use of PBR and setting the
pins
> fails to correct the loose pin problem, and you later discover that
the
> pinblock is, indeed, delaminated due to the pounding of the
previous
> technician, the owner may decide that YOU are to blame and not he!
	This is why I tell the ower that tuning pin treatment is a
diagonistic repair.  If it fails then you know the pin block was
ruined.  If it works, its like heart surgery, who knows for how long?
.. Tilting the piano to its back and applying Garfields takes what, 20
min, 40 min if you are also visiting? What are the alternatives? It
takes longer to explain them than doing the treatment.  rm
>So
> check out that PB thorougly, before attempting any repair. In other
> words, CYA!
>
> Good luck!
>
> Les Smith
> lessmith@buffnet.net
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Mon, 14 Apr 1997, BILL &PAT HOPKINS wrote:
>
> >
> > I tuned a piano recently that had loose tuning pins. In the upper
treble I
> > noticed someone had "banged" the tuning pins further into the
pinblock.
> > Should the same be done to the remainder of the piano.  This
piano has
> > sentimental value to the customer and are willing to try
anything.
> > I also tried to set a few bass tuning pins into the pinblock.
They went in
> > awfully easy.  Is pin dope an option?
> > Would it be beneficial to just trying setting the pins deeper
into the
> > pinblock and then dope it up?  Any suggestions would be helpful.
Thanks
> >
> >
>