Loose pinblock

[Jim]

Hi Richard:

Well, at least you know you are not on my delete list.  If the loose
tuning pins of a vertical piano are all in one straight horizontal
row, I would suspect an internal split in the block.  In such case, PBR
will not solve the problem. Neither will oversized pins.  We have had
success in pulling only the row of affected pins, hooking the loose string
coils over neighboring pins, and filling the pin holes with boat resin
or even epoxy. The next day, we would drill out the holes for 00 pins and
reinstall the pins and strings. Sometimes when there was extensive
splitting of the block, it would take maybe a half gallon of resin.
It would be good to look behind the piano first where you can see the
bottom edge of the pinblock. If there are splits or cracks there, the
resin will run right through. Seal it good with duct tape first.

Jim Coleman, Sr.

On Mon, 14 Apr 1997, Richard Moody wrote:

> Les and List.
> 	Now that I need some vital info, I probably have to humbly
> appoligize and kya for past perceived and real snydeasisms,
> inflametory remarks, and caustic comments.  Do I hear a few crying
> "Baloney"?  Ah at least I didn't make it into your kill files.   ...
>  Oh that did it ??
>
> 	I came upon a "loose pinblock" where all of the bottom pins are
> loose and the top two rows are tight.  Well at least the 20 or so I
> tested.  The pins are far enough in so they shouldn't be driven. This
> is in an upright, an old Adam Schaff. Its too far gone, SB, esp for
> rebuilding, unless the case really is Rosewood.
> 	 I can't see the laminations I want to look at, so I am wondering If
> removing a loose pin and borrowing a otoscope might shed some light
> on a hidden problem.  Anyone come across this problem and found what
> caused it?  Remeber the top pins are so tight it would never cross
> your mind to consider tightner, but the bottom pins, its like they
> are in a different block.  If I were replacing the  block I could saw
> it apart. Perhaps those of you who have replaced pinblocks for this
> reason did a post mortem?
> 	It will get Garfields.  But I have never put Garfields  on just one
> row.  The top pins are so tight I am fearful of getting them too
> tight.  Probably try a few and see what happens.  The piano is in a
> home so I don't have that much time to experiment.
> 	And speaking of experiments, there are no bushings, and at last was
> temped to try CA. I never considered CA after hearing of it, because
> I thought, "Oh it will just wick into the bushings and never get down
> where it belongs.  Also I am fearful of producing jumping pins.
> There has been some written on CA and tuning pins, if the authors
> have it still at hand and could email it, I sure would appreciate.  I
> would look in the archives,  but I have limited time from my ISP and
> will have to budget that for next month.
> 	Thanks for every thing
> Richard Moody
>
>
> > From: Les Smith <lessmith@buffnet.net>
> > To: pianotech@byu.edu
> > Subject: Re: Loose pinblock
> > Date: Monday, April 14, 1997 1:57 PM
> >
>
> >  Don't set the pins first and then use the PBR. Although
> > a lot has been writtn recently about the use of CA glue, the pins
> in
> > your piano sound so loose that I think you might be better off
> using
> > Garfield's Pinblock Restorer, applied with a hypo-oiler.
>
> 	use hypo-oiler should be in bold caps  rm
>
> >If the pins
> > are really loose and you don't have to contend with plate bushings,
> > you can make the first treatment full-strength--that is without
> dilut-
> > ing the Garfield's 50/50 with alcohol as is usually done. If the
> piano
> > does have plate bushings around the tuning pins, putting a small
> hole
> > in them on the *keyboard* side of the bushing will often aid
> absorption
> > into the pinblock.
> 	My concern about CA
> >Make sure you remove the action BEFORE doping the
> > block.
> 	Even in an upright. You will want to do some chipping to see how it
> holds
> rm.   Ever try to remove an action when the piano is on its back?? rm
> >If you think Garfield's works well on tuning pins, just wait
> > till you can see how it can tighten up action centers! :)
> 	Supposidly works on loose B check wires and CR pins, worth checking
> out. rm
> >Initially,
> > go over the pinblock at least twice with the Garfield's, or until
> the
> > pinblock won't absorb any more. Give it a week to do its stuff. If
> the
> > pins are still somewhat loose, give it another treatment and wait
> another
> > week. Sometimes multiple applications are required, but Garfields
> has
> > withstood the test of time and many technicians swear by it.
> 	Ignoring the directions for a second treatment is probably why there
> are those who say it doesn't work.   rm
> > pins feel tight enough, you can go through and set the pins a
> little
> > deeper into the block as extra insurance.
> 	Well they can't be too close...  rm
> 	>Do this with the action OUT
> > of the piano and use a pinblock support jack under the block as you
> are
> > pounding the pins in. If you don't, your pounding may cause the
> block
> > to delaminate or separate, especially in older pianos. I've seen
> pianos
> > where the action couldn't be removed because some bozo technician
> had
> > started pounding on tuning pins without supporting the block, and
> the
> > lower laminations were sitting on the hammer flanges. Don't let
> this
> > happen to you!
> > Before attempting any repair on this instrument, I suggest that you
> re-
> > move the action and inspect the pinblock VERY CAREFULLY. You
> mentioned
> > that it appeared as if another technician had already attempted to
> set
> > some of the pins. It's possible that the pinblock may already be
> damaged
> > beyond any hope of repair, if he chose to pound in those pins
> without
> > supporting the pinblock first. So check it out thoroughly for
> damage
> > BEFORE attempting any repair. If your use of PBR and setting the
> pins
> > fails to correct the loose pin problem, and you later discover that
> the
> > pinblock is, indeed, delaminated due to the pounding of the
> previous
> > technician, the owner may decide that YOU are to blame and not he!
> 	This is why I tell the ower that tuning pin treatment is a
> diagonistic repair.  If it fails then you know the pin block was
> ruined.  If it works, its like heart surgery, who knows for how long?
> . Tilting the piano to its back and applying Garfields takes what, 20
> min, 40 min if you are also visiting? What are the alternatives? It
> takes longer to explain them than doing the treatment.  rm
> >So
> > check out that PB thorougly, before attempting any repair. In other
> > words, CYA!
> >
> > Good luck!
> >
> > Les Smith
> > lessmith@buffnet.net
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On Mon, 14 Apr 1997, BILL &PAT HOPKINS wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > I tuned a piano recently that had loose tuning pins. In the upper
> treble I
> > > noticed someone had "banged" the tuning pins further into the
> pinblock.
> > > Should the same be done to the remainder of the piano.  This
> piano has
> > > sentimental value to the customer and are willing to try
> anything.
> > > I also tried to set a few bass tuning pins into the pinblock.
> They went in
> > > awfully easy.  Is pin dope an option?
> > > Would it be beneficial to just trying setting the pins deeper
> into the
> > > pinblock and then dope it up?  Any suggestions would be helpful.
> Thanks
> > >
> > >
> >
>