ramblin'

[Richard Moody]

Greetings Jim, 
	You wrote,, 

>	The inharmonicity curve of many pianos
> causes the 4ths and 5ths to not increase as the theory usually
predicts,
> at least in the temperament octave.

How very true.  I made a mistake in tuning according to your (Jim C.)
pure fifths scheme, in that a pure fifth and a pure fourth can be
tuned within a pure octave. And this according to "paper" will lead
to all kinds of "errors" due to all kinds of "commas" 
	Any how, to make a long tuning session short, I did encounter
errors, but not nearly the amount "paper" would lead one to believe. 
In fact the "errors" perdicted were so much less (to my ear). 
Perhaps we need to get a bunch of tuners together on a two week
retreat some where, and hash this thing out.  Bring out the machines,
set them to the math, let the aural tuners do their thing,
measure/record them by machines, compare the results; let the players
in, hear their opinions, let the tuners test the intevals, let the
machines measure them, publish the results.  
	Of course we would need five of the "best" pianos of each brand, (at
least 10 names) That's 50 pianos at at least $50,000 each (factory
price at most I would hope) 
	Now to try Ralph Martin's  scheme....which almost got lost,, thanks
for including it in your post Jim , , inspite of those who say not to
be redundant in this manner. 
Richard Moody. 


> 


----------
> From: Jim <pianotoo@IMAP2.ASU.EDU>
> To: rmartin21@juno.com
> Cc: pianotech@ptg.org
> Subject: Re: ramblin'
> Date: Saturday, June 21, 1997 1:02 AM
> 
> Dr. Ralph:
> 
> Please rest assured I am going on 72. That's good advice to
Richard.
> The 4ths and 5ths do not change much, once you have decided on what
> octave width you can live with. The inharmonicity curve of many
pianos
> causes the 4ths and 5ths to not increase as the theory usually
predicts,
> at least in the temperament octave. Many systems have been used to
fill
> out the rest of the scale. My older brother who taught me could
tune by
> 4ths and 5ths with no reference to the 3rds and 6ths and come out
very
> close every time. Now, that is real skill. I never was that good.
> 
> Jim Coleman, Sr.
> 
> On Fri, 20 Jun 1997 rmartin21@juno.com wrote:
> 
> > Rich
> > 
> > I don't think you ramble at all. I like your style. Of course at
my age I
> > couldn't recognise ramblin' any way. Incidentely, I happen to be
67 this
> > year. I know that devil Jim Bryant is dying to bring it up so I'm
beating
> > him to the punch. My only fond hope is that ol' Jim
> > Coleman is older than I. If he's not...I don't want to really
hear about
> > it.
> > 
> > To wider octaves: I started tuning by 4ths and 5ths years ago
then
> > graduated(?) to the thirds system with various themes including
both end
> > from the middle. Lately when I tune aurally I have digressed to
my youth
> > and am tuning the old way again. The major reason is 5ths. I like
them
> > almost pure. This ,of course is going to leave the octave wide.
> > 
> > Try tuning A4, then drop down to E4, setting a fourth you can
live with.
> > (1 to 1 1/2 beats wide). Then tune down from the same A4 a 5th to
D4.
> > Make the 5th nearly pure. Now tune from E4 to A3 a 5th as pure as
the
> > upper one. Test A3 with D4 to see if the 4th beats about the same
as your
> > other 4th. Lastly, check your A3-A4 octave and see if you can
live with
> > the resultant wide octave. If it's too wide then you'll have to
put up
> > with 5th that are a little faster than you'd like, or become
accustomed
> > to wider octaves.
> > 
> > Tuning up and down from the temperment, check each note first
with the
> > 5th and 4th below so that you'll maintain the same 5ths and 4ths
that you
> > started with.
> > 
> > Now all you need do is fill in the rest.  E4 down to B3,etc. or
by third
> > if you wish. Either way you will have predetermined the width of
your
> > 5th, 4ths and octaves by tuning the first 4 notes.
> > 
> > Just one way that may aid you. We all do what we hear easily.
> > 
> > Ralph Martin 
> >