non-technical -- Thanks for help with clarinet thingy

[Horace Greeley]

Mike,

I've deliberately held off responding to this, as I wanted to see what
others would say first.

With reference to this question, and as an aside to the tuning article in
this month's Journal, let me suggest looking at Edgar Brinsmead's  volume
- "History of the Piano"  (or some such title, which presently escapes me).

I've tuned at mostly 442 for more concerts/recordings than I can count.
Even the orchestras which claim to use 440 are tuned to oboe players who,
taking a page out of Marcel Tabeteau, close the tonals/keys on their right
hand while fingering "A" with the left, in order to give "a nice, low A",
and then play somewhat, to very much sharper.  Most European orchestras
tune to at least 442, with groups like the Vienna Chamber Orchestra tuning
to 446.

There are several cogent reasons for doing this, salient among which are:

	1.- Pitch drop in the piano as ambient temperature goes up during
performance.
	2.- Partial compensation for pitch rise (most noticable in the
winds), during the
		same period of time.

Since the former has been discussed here, I'll keep remarks to the latter.

If you spend some time carefully auditioning recordings, you will notice
that, in many cases, the intonation problems develop not in the strings,
but rather in the woodwinds.  More specifically, score study will show what
can be best described as a predeliction in the second chair woodwinds to
play sharp - most often when voiced in first inversion.

All generalizations are bad, including this one.

However, if you think in terms of equal temperament, then this will make
sense.  If the second clarinet, in the second movement of Brahms second (or
first, or third, or fourth) symphony, is in and out of first inversion, and
does not keep the third untempered, the root, fifth, sixth, and seventh
(or octave, for that matter) above it will all sound flat.  The other
players, hearing this, will push their pitch up, and a round robin ensues.
I am not particularly picking on clarinets (or clarinettists) here, more
often than not, the bassons are just basically sharp to everything else to
begin with.

In this kind of environment, a piano which starts a concert at 440 will
sound flat, even if the concerto/use is during the first half.  If you have
a big program, and the concerto is on the second half - well, good luck.

In the best of all possible worlds, you would have time to hear enough of a
rehearsal of the group/soloist to get some fainting idea of what will
actually work.  In day to day fact, you must make some determination based
on your experience of what a specific piano will do under certain
circumstances.

In dealing with the clarinet, it is, with the possible exception of the
piccolo, the most out of tune instrument coming or going.  In spite of the
best efforts of Buffet, Selmer, Wurlitzer and others, the  instrument just
seems to have a death wish in terms of a consistent scale.  Entirely too
many modifications to an"ideal" bore must be made to get around the
"throat" tones, undercutting one tonal to lower one note plays Hobb with
several others, etc.  Interestingly, one of the most successful recent
endeavors is Buffet's experiment with wood/composite material - reviewed as
superior in every detail until folks find out that it's not old-fashioned
grenadilla.

The point here, is that while the use of 440 as a testing standard has
reasonable probative value as to the degree to which someone has or has not
established their tuning technique,   in the real world, it is just as
relative as anything else in music.  That is, it derives its value from
context, and not vice versa.

Unfortunately, in the instant example, clarinets, as well as most other
instruments, are designed and built to be _the most in tune they can be_ at
a certain pitch.  That pitch is nominally, but only nominally, 440.  Yes,
the clarinet can put on a shorter barrel, the flute can change the position
of the head-cork, and the double reeds can whack off a millimeter or two,
and all can play sharper to begin with.  The direct cost, however, is that
the instrument is increasingly out of tune with itself - before anyone even
begins to play it - .

So, there is no straight answer.

Besides, even Steinway had a 464 A for a brief while...

Best.

Horace





>hello all!
>
>Thanks for the help with my clarinet question.  The various posts seemed to
>favor A440, but it's apparent there is no firm agreement out there. (wouldn't
>that be a nice thing?)
>
>Stay Tuned!
>
>Mike Hoffman, RPT
>Marquette, MI




Horace Greeley			hgreeley@leland.stanford.edu

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