Temperament quiz(Foote)

[A440A@aol.com]

 M.   writes: 
> my question is 
>not about the relevancy of HT but about which one to use in which 
>circumstances.  
     This is a good question.  In fact, when discussing the concept, one of
the first questions to arise is "Which for What?" .  Since there is so little
written by the composers on temperament, we must extrapolate. Jorgensen's
research is invaluable for this pursuit, as it allows you to chronologically
view temperament's evolution through a given period .
We are basically interested in what has happened between the Just Intonation
attempts of the early 1300's to today's reliance on ET, and he give a nicely
chronological time line to hang things on. 
       	I find that listening to compositions in several temperaments which we
know were extant in their time is a good starting point.  Follow your ears
from this point on, as the relative strengths of tempering show different
"colorations" depending on the size of piano.  Just is Just on virtually all
sizes, but the more highly tempered keys can get unmusical in a hurry on a
small piano.  
      So, I would recommend the following starting places,  
 
 >Rameau
     Depending on key signature, the Aaron 1/4 comma is a good place to start.
Later work?  perhaps  Werckmiester III
 
>JS Bach Wohltemperierte Klavier
Werckmiester III
 
>Scarlatti
 ?????? no experience here.

>CPE Bach
>Mozart/Haydn
     By the key signatures in Mozart's piano compostitions, it would appear
that he stays within the seven keys or so that one would expect a meantone
tuning to offer.  With that in mind,  we listened to Mozart on a Hawkes
Modified, and a Aaron 1/4 comma meantone. 
     The purity was too much, it was everywhere, and the music seemed dull
after a  little while.  I kept waiting for something  to stand out.  Listening
later to the same things on a Kirnberger, there was a tonal interplay that was
missing and the music was much more pleasing to our ears.  So, which is
better?
     This is an important question because it demonstrates that what we like
may or may not be what the composer had in mind. We have 20th century ears,
and our past impressions and imprints are very real factors in what we like
today.  Just as a rough estimate, I think the modern pianos and their
audiences  like a  WT that is slightly later than the composers era.  This may
be because of our unfamiliarity with more than 14 cents in the thirds, or
because the instrument is offering so much more overtone in the signal, at
increased levels of inharmonicity.  (I would like to ask Steve Birkett to
address this point, as he has experience enough to make an educated
comparison. )



>Early Beethoven
     The 1/7 comma meantones ,and even the Hawkes Mercantor comma temperament
that Owen posts,  sound really good for a lot of this music. There may be
clashes occasionally, which have to be decided upon as a mistake in tempering,
or possibly an intentional tonal effect by the composer. (See, ain't this
fun!?)
     The Kirnberger III is a strong varient to try if any of the meantones
cause discomfort. 
 >Late B.
The Young(1799) is a "can't miss" tuning here, though going back to even a
little earlier temperament can add depth and intensity which is more enjoyable
to those with the palette for it.  So far, the track on the CD that has drawn
the most comment is the most highly tempered part of the entire CD, ( 2nd mvt
of the Pathetique). So, perhaps heavy tempering is not so foreign after all,
if the composer was putting things together with creative beauty. 
 
>Chopin/Liszt
 ET for Chopin, and either a Young or ET for the Liszt
(Once again, personal preference is at work here.  I don't actually care for
Chopin's music in ET, but the WT seems to take a step backward's. 
 >Brahms
Young, or ET
 
>Debussy/Ravel
ET only.  (IMHO) 
    I have heard these composer's  work in other than ET and their
compositions seem to lose something.   I am not sure where or how, but a
noticibly unequal temperament for Debussy disturbs what I have always enjoyed
as a flowing feeling, and the textural landscapes that he paints seem to
stumble over unwelcome tonal intrusions from an unequal tuning.   I believe
that ET is as essential to this music as WT is to Beethoven.  

    Overall,  the first time listener will be best brought into the fold by a
very mild change.  It is ok if you have a third of the audience saying they
didn't hear any difference.  That is better than a third of them, (usually
musicians) saying that it just sounded "out of tune".  
 enough, 
Regards to all
Ed Foote
( I am suggesting to Garth Brooks to consider a Well Temperament for a solo
piano and vocal cut he is going to put on his next CD. This could be way
cool!. I'll let y'all know.)