No. At 13:01 3/22/98 -0700, you wrote: >WELL SAID ! You > bring sanity to the HT discussion >Joe >---------- >> From: Les Smith <lessmith@buffnet.net> >> To: pianotech@ptg.org >> Subject: Re: historical et (Long) >> Date: Sunday, March 22, 1998 11:00 AM >> >> >> >> On Fri, 20 Mar 1998, Stephen Birkett wrote: >> >> > As for 19th C. it seems obvious that the shift to ET (as we know it) >was >> > gradual and at different rates of time in different locales...probably >> > coincided with the destruction of tonality and its dramatic effect >toward >> > the end of the Century....precisely when the modern accuracy of ET was >> > probably first devised. >> >> Hi, Steve. >> >> You've hit an important point here, but I interpret it slightly >different- >> ly. First a little bit about HT's, which you are in a unique position to >> understand. Although I speak for myself, I don't think that there's a >> single tech on the list who EVER tried to say that the older composers-- >> Bach, Handel, Haydn, Mozart, Clementi, Beethoven, Schubert, Mendelssohn, >> Chopin, etc,-- used ET. That is NOT the issue. Further, I don't think >> any of us have ever tried to say that a clavichord, a harpsichord, or >> a forte-piano should EVER be tuned in anything but an HT appropriate to >> its day. That, too, is NOT the issue. >> >> What IS the issue is this: The tunings the old composers used were meant >> SPECIFICALLY TO ACCOMODATE OR FIT THE TONAL PROPERTIES OF THE INTRUMENTS > >> THEY WERE WRITING FOR --ie TO MAXIMIZE THEIR VIRTUES AND TO MINIMIZE >> THEIR FAULTS. By that I mean this:Bach wrote the Well-Tempered >Clavichord; >> he did NOT WRITE The Well-Tempered late 20th Century Concert Grand! >> The tonal differences between a modern concert grand and a clavichord are >> the differences between a B-1 Stealth Bomber and a balsawood rubberband- >> driven model airplane! The problem arises when one tries to force a >> temperament designed to take advantage of, or optimize, the tonal prop- >> erties of one instrument, and apply it to another, totally different >> instrument, whose tonal properties are light years away from the original >> instrument. When you tune a modern concert grand to a temperament >intended >> for a clavichord YOU ARE NOT HEARING BACH THE WAY EITHER HE OR HIS >> CONTEMPORARIES HEARD IT. Am I clear, so far? >> >> Now take Chopin's piano--the Pleyel, NOT the Broadwood. :) Whether >restor- >> ing an original, or fabricating a reproduction, I can't imagine your tun- >> it in ANYTHING but a temperament appropriate to Paris-1840. However, the >> tonal properties of that Pleyel differ HUGELY from a modern concert >grand. >> By "Modern Concert Grand" I mean specifically that instrument which came >> into being at the latter part of the 19th century. The very best nine- >> footers that Steinway and Knabe had to offer circa 1885. Are you with me? >> >> These pianos not only differed markedly from the Pleyel in matters such >> the full cast iron plate, the over-strung bass, the 7 1/3 octave span, >> the 200+ strings with their many tons of tension, but the action, too, >> was markedly different from the Pleyel. Because their dynamic range was >> far greater than the pianos which came before them, and because their >> actions gave pianists the ability to control those greater dynamics with >> extreme precision, it was concert grands such as these which >revolutioniz- >> ed piano playing by permitting artists to do things musically which >either >> had not been possible before, or possible, but not to this degree before. >> >> Pianos such as these changed HOW music was played. With these changes >> there were certain things from the past which were lost, but there were >> also many new things which were gained. YOU WILL NOTE THAT THE DEVELOP- >> MENT OF THESE PIANOS-- AND THE STYLE OF PLAYING I AM ABOUT TO DES- >> CRIBE-- COINCIDES EXACTLY WITH THE RISE IN THE USE OF ET, which you >> have accurately noted started in the latter part of the 19th century. >> Here's why I believed it happened. >> >> Let's talk Schubert's Impromptu in Gb, Opus 90, #3. First some basics >> for others following this. First, good pianists ARE ALWAYS PLAING AT >> SEVERAL DYNAMIC LEVELS AT THE SAME TIME!!! Beginning students are taught >> to play the "melody" louder than the "accompaniment". Thus, even though >> the LH may have a three note chord, it's played softer than the single >> note RH. TWO dynamic levels. Next. that first year student learns to >> "lean" on the bottom note of that triad to play it slightly louder than >> the other two notes in order to emphasize-slightly--the bass line. The >> result is THREE DYNAMIC LEVELS AT THE SAME TIME--two in the LH and one >> in the right. This is with a FIRST YEAR Student! This balancing of the >> different voices according to their importance is fundamental to high- >> quality piano playing, especially the concert repertoire. >> >> Although the minimum number of dynamic levels required for this kind of >> playing is about 16, those late 19th century grands could produce 24 >> OR MORE different dynamic levels and their actions gave the pianist to >> control them with great accuracy when playing multiple levels at the >> same time. The best of these pianos--properly regulated and voiced-- >> could produce a pppp WITHOUT the soft pedal, and at the same time a >> high end of FFFFZ! In between these extremes were a seemingly infinite >> number of small dynamic gradations whereby small changes in finger >> pressure/weight were instantly translated into small, but perceptible >> changes in volume. This allowed the pianist to control the balancing >> between the many separate voices with an accuracy never before possible. >> ANYTHING which interferred with this control of the dynamics of the >> various voices was deemed undesirable. THUS A TEMPERAMENT WHICH MADE >> CERTAIN INTERVALS PROMINENT BY ITSELF, INSTEAD OF ALLOWING THE PIANIST >> TO CONTROL THEIR DYNAMICS, WAS NOT LONGER WANTED. >> >> Here--with apologies to Steve--is how Schubrt's Gb Impromptu is played >> on a modern concert grand. This piece is written in four voices-- >> soprano, alto, tenor and bass. Their order of importance is soprano >> (which carries the melody), Bass (bassline), tenor, and then the alto >> which carries the accompaniment figuration. Four voices, four different >> dynamic levels ALWAYS! The loudest voice--the soprano--and the softest >> voice--the alto-- are in the SAME HAND. The accompaniment figuration >> in the alto consists of over TWO THOUSAND notes. The piano must be >> regulated and voiced AND TUNED in such a way that the amount of fin- >> ger pressure/weight needed to produce a given dynamic level IS THE >> SAME FOR ALL 2000 notes! A flange which is too tight, or too loose; >> a single improperly voiced or regulated note; a sluggish jack, or >> binding key, will mar the performance. So will any weirdly beating >> intervals in this, or any other voice which stand out when they're >> not supposed to. The PIANIST controls which notes wil be prominent >> and which won't, NOT THE TEMPERAMENT! >> >> As the Impromptu is played, the balance between the voices--S,B,T,A-- >> is ALWAYS ( well, almost) maintained. The Soprano leads. When it >> crescendos, they all do; when it decrescendos, they all do, HOWEVER >> always maintaining that S,B,T,A, balance. Sometimes, the pianist WILL >> CHOOSE to bring out an inner voice progression in order to emphasize a >> key or chord change; When a theme is repeated he can vary both the >> dynamics and/or the balance of the voices for variety's sake. The >> choice of what to emphasize and when, IS HIS. >> >> This identical balance of the voices occurs in the first movement of >> the "Moonlight Sonata". The soprano has the melody, the alto the >> moving, accompaniment figuration. Look at the LH-- two C#'s. DON'T >> play them "flat". "Lean slightly on the Bass note. It should be played >> "slightly" louder than the tenor. Four voices. Four dynamic levels. >> >> You see this same thing in the middle movement of the Pathetique. The >> soprano has the melody and the alto has the accompaniment figuration. >> There is no tenor to begin with, only the bass. The three voices are >> balanced S,B,A. The accompaniment figuration ALWAYS must be carefully >> balanced against the melody when both are in the same hand, so that the >> listener never is lead to confuse an accompaniment note with the melody. >> >> Fur Elise. The melody is in the RH ONLY!. The LH is the accompaniment. >> HOWEVER, the first note in each measure of the LH acc. should be slight- >> ly louder than the other LH notes which follow. Thus three dynamic >> levels--two in the LH, another in the RH, which carries the melody. >> >> That last bit wasn't meant for you, Steve, just anyone else who might not >> have heard this stuff before. This kind of dynamic balancing of the >voices >> goes on constantly when a pianist is playing. He is ALWAY playing at >seve- >> ral dynamic levels at the same time, no matter whether he is playing >> Scarlatti, Bach, Chopin. Further, he is able to do this BETTER than any >> of the composer's original instruments allowed them to do. A pianist >play- >> ing a Bach fugue on a modern concert grand not only plays each voice at a >> different dynamic level, but as theme and counterpoints switch from voice >> to voice he is constantly changing the balance of the voices to bring >> that out. Whether playing a clavichord, a harpsichord, or an organ, old >> Bach could only dream of an instrument capable of doing such things, so >> well. >> >> Well, Steve, that's about it. The thesis is that the development of the >> concert grand as it evolved in the latter 19th century, lead to a new >> style of playing specifically designed to take advantage of the new >> capabilities of the instrument. Its huge dynamic spectrum, coupled with >> an action which allowed very precise control of those expanded dynamics >> led to the playing old music in new ways. In some ways, such as being >> able to precisely control the balance of several voices at the same time, >> it lead to being able to play those old pieces with more clarity of the >> movement of the individual voices than EVER before. It also put the >> control of which voices and intervals would predominate, directly into >> the hands of the pianist, NOT THE TEMPERAMENT. And, of course, there >> WERE all those new and tempting high-end dynamics! :) >> >> Then too, an aggressive HT that was entirely suitable for a piano like >> Schubert's, where--because of its relatively small tonal output-- the >> roughness would not be so noticable-- would be ENTIRELY UNSUITABLE on >> a modern concert grand where-because of its much greater tonal output-- >> the roughness would be highly objectionable. HT'S SOUND BEST WHEN USED >> ON THE HISTORICAL INSTRUMENTS THEY WERE DESIGNED FOR! If one doesn't >> like the way Chopin sounds on a modern grand, STOP COMPLAINING, and >> pay Steve to build you a copy of an early Pleyel. The modern concert >> grand was no more designed to sound like an early Pleyel, than a >> Corvette is designed to drive like a Model T. >> >> Anyway, a temperament was needed that would complement--not fight-- >> the tonal properties of the late 19th century concert grand, and the >> style of playing which evolved to take maximum advantage of those >> properties. ET filled the bill. Its rise to prominence in the latter >> part of the 19th century, exactly coincided with the coming of age >> of the AMERICAN-BUILT concert grand, the best of which still remain >> as examples of some of the finest pianos ever built by anyone, any- >> where, anytime. Very early recordings clearly show the likes of Moriz >> Rosenthal--who studied with LISZT--and Joseff Lhevinne--who made his >> debut with ANTON RUBINSTEIN--playing in ET AND SOUNDING GREAT! That's >> why the over-whelming majority of the finest concert pianists this >> century has known chose to play and record in ET. They knew EXACTLY >> what they were doing. >> >> Respectfully, >> >> Les Smith >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > Conrad Hoffsommer, RPT hoffsoco@martin.luther.edu Luther College Music Technician pno2ner@salamander.com Decorah, Iowa 52101 Voice (319)-387-1204 Fax (319)-387-1076 Oh wad some power the giftie gie us; to see oursel's as others see us! It wad some monie a blunder free us, and foolish notion. - Robert Burns
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