Hi Dale, Just a couple of observations to your post. I am not a trained classical pianist. I had 1 year of piano lessons at the teachers college I attended and that was that. Any playing I have picked up, I do pretty well, considering, I have picked up with 36 years practice while servicing pianos since then. I expect products I buy, power tools and the like, to not need further tweaking to get them to work as well as they might. I have never tuned a Petrof, Bose', Fazioloi, or Hamburg Steinway. I have played them but do not feel I have missed anything not having serviced one. I prefer the more mass produced pianos. It is the customers money I am playing with when I service a piano that is not up to snuff. I would rather they buy something that is up to snuff first than take the chance that it MIGHT NOT be able to be brought up to snuff. When a customer asks me what to look for in selecting a piano ,my advice is find one YOU like, the way it plays, feels, looks, and cost and then call me and ask my OPINION. I can alert them to problems that I have come across with various makes or models. I tell then never to take the salesman's word that their technician can change the voicing to whatever suits them in their home. My opinion is that if you don't like it in the store you are not going to like it at home, regardless of what the salesman says. My own belief is that voicing is a temporary thing when it is changed drastically. I don't always recommend the most expensive pianos, nor do I like to service the more expensive pianos. I will call it knowing where my own "plateau of skill" is. I do not take on action regulating to the utmost degree as that is not my forte and I stay away from it. There are many automobiles that are fantastic machines, but you wouldn't drive them everyday. I tend to stay away from the "high maintenance things and recommend the same to my clients. I think, in the end, we are playing with someone else money and I try to deal in known things. Some do not like the Yamaha sound. That is fine, I do. There are some that like European craftsmanship as compared to the high tech consistency of the Asians. I fall in the latter group. I fall into the group that appreciates rules to follow and I can follow them very well and it brings order to my life. Some are more adventurous. That is fine. If you like trying to tweak these types of instruments, that is fine. Again to me, when you pay a lot of money for something, you want it right when it gets to your home. I do not want to pay someone more money to make it like I want and expect it to be. We all have different opinions and philosophies, so be it. Please, let us part friends with different opinions trying to do what is best for our clients. You are right in what you believe and practice as am I. Have as nice Labor Day. I would appreciate any further thoughts you may have on this subject. Please post me privately so we don't bore our other friends. James Grebe R.P.T. of the P.T.G. St. Louis, MO. Competent Service since 1962 Do what is right and do no harm Creator of Handsome Hardwood Caster Cups and Practical Piano Peripherals pianoman@inlink.com ---------- > From: dale r fox <foxpiano@juno.com> > To: pianotech@ptg.org > Subject: Re: Petrof > Date: Sunday, August 02, 1998 6:59 PM > > Hi Jory, > > I must agree with you in almost every point. I frequently refer serious > customers to the local Petrof dealer before making a grand piano > purchase. (Upright too). The Petrofs come in a little rough around the > edges but _most_ of them can be tweaked with relative success. Some of > them have some interesting capo bar shapes which present a little more of > a challenge. I usually advise people to play the piano heartily for a > couple of months before doing the finer points of regulation. (I do not > believe that they pound in their actions like some of the more > technologically advanced makers of instruments from the Pacific rim, > before doing action regulation. I also don't believe that they are all > that good at regulation.) Special attention needs to be given to guide > rail bushings and string leveling. > > For those who believe that every piano should be_peeeerfect_ as it is > unboxed, let me say that you are certainly welcome to your opinion. My > customers pay my fees so that their piano will sound better. If the > manufacturer gives me something I can improve upon, I much prefer that > to a piano which has no chance of ever being musical in the least. The > price point of the Petrof indicates a certain lack of finess is to be > expected. I don't mind providing the finess for a price. > > As to James' observations listed below, Some of those more expensive, > well prepped instruments may play better out of the box, and may be as > close to perfect as you could wish from a mechanical point of view, but > if they aren't musical at that point, they will never be fun or exciting > to play_music_ on. Maybe James G. will gain a different point of view > from this thread, we do get paid to fix pianos, after all! > > Last point, The action and mechanicals on the Petrof are very workable. > The hammers are another subject. Better than the petrified felt that > hails from al points Asian, but still a major disappointment when trying > to coax a little more out of the piano. > > All IMHO > > Regards, > > Dale Fox > > > On Tue, 1 Sep 1998 22:39:15 -0700 "Jory A. Olson" <jory@teleport.com> > writes: > >I'm not a technician, but according to the technician that did the > >work on my Petrof she didn't do anything to my piano that she didn't > >normally do to the Steinway's to get them ready to be put on the > >floor. According to at least one source I've heard that most > >Steinways get an average of THREE DAYS of prep work before going out > >on the floor. You can argue that the manufacturer should do the work, > >but it seems many including Steinway leave the "fine tuning" to the > >dealer. Besides, my piano was prepped. Most of the work done on it > >was what the technician described as "Concert Level" work. If you > >REALLY want to know what a "raw" Petrof sounds and feels like visit > >Colton Piano and Organ in Santa Clara. From what I can tell "dealer > >prep" there consists of removing the keystick from the action and > >dusting it. > > > >I did not buy my Petrof because it was cheaper than a Yamaha. I'm > >fortunate enough to be able to afford either one. I bought the Petrof > >because I preferred the sound of the Petrof and knew from my > >experience that about $200 - $400 worth of work would make it > >exceptional. > > > >Besides, even with the most favorable dollar to yen ratio in the past > >ten years a Yamaha C3 still fetches $22 - $24K. That's a huge > >difference. > > > >I can't figure it out. If I was a piano technician I would view the > >relative "roughness" of a Petrof to be the ultimate money making > >opportunity. Charge the customer $400 for a solid day's worth of > >straightforward work (nothing exotic was done to my instrument) and > >bask in the glow from the appreciative customer. > > > >I encourage you folks to keep an open mind the next time you encounter > >a Petrof. Maybe they're not as horrible as you think. > > > >Jory > > > >Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1998 17:31:04 -0500 > >From: "pianoman" <pianoman@inlink.com> > >Subject: Petrof > > > >Hi All, > >I'm a little late jumping in on this, but in my humble opinion, if a > >piano is going to be called a fine piano and the instrument maker > >wants his product to be known as a fine piano it should be a fine > >piano when it gets through with the dealer prepping and certainly > >before delivery. Jory's piano may have BECOME a fine piano when it > >was finished by his own technician but it was only a average piano > >before that. It should not be left up to the aftermarket technician > >to do what the manufacturer didn't do. If the reputation of the > >Petrof is going to rise it must be a fine piano right out of the box, > >so to speak. > >Let me give you an analogy. In the pipe organ field, Kilgen was one > >of those manufacturers that turned them out like a cheese factory. > >Many were built and set up and Kilgen got a reputation for being a > >mediocre organ. They went under in the 1950's and since then, organ > >techs have been finding that with some tinkering of wind pressures and > >voicing the same instrument that was thought of as mediocre is > >suddenly a fine organ, now since someone took the trouble to finish > >what the factory started. It should not be our job to finish what the > >manufacturer started. If the maker want to get a fine reputation he > >should provide FINISHED pianos, not pianos almost done. The Petrof > >may be cheaper than a Yamaha but how much after work do you have to do > >on ANY Yamaha from the largest grand to the cheapest console. The > >answer you all know already. > >James Grebe > >R.P.T. of the P.T.G. > >St. Louis, MO. > >Competent Service since 1962 > >Caster Cup Center of the Universe > >Home of Handsome Hardwood Caster Cups > >pianoman@inlink.com > > > > > > > > > > _____________________________________________________________________ > You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. > Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com > Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
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