Tuning Pins

[Richard Brekne]

Hi Keith... grin.. I can see we will not find much aggreement on this point. I will
remember to refer any customers I ever might have in your area to you in the case
that such work is prefered by the customer. In the mean time I cant resist jibing
one last time back your way.. so here goes.. all in fun mind you.. :)

kam544@flash.net wrote:

> >...No offence meant, but I know very few techs who subscribe to the idea
> >that tapping pins in has any real lasting value...
>
> No offense taken, Richard, but maybe it's because you only know a few
> techs.  <grin>

Being born and raised in America, and starting my tuning training there I have had
the opportunity of knowing many from many different countries. I am to a large
degree a self taught tech, and in that regard I have attended every seminar..
course, and the like I could manage. I have met quite a few techs to be sure.

>
>
> >...I think you will find you are in the distinct minority here.. but so be it.
>
> >From conjecture on your part to later asking me if I've taken torque
> readings.  So be it.    <hehehe>

I meant it seriously, but hey... I'll be the first to conceed the point if there is
any evidence to show I should. The "conjecture" is simply based on the many
disscussions I have had through the years with other techs, some of these touching
on this subject matter. I must admit.. I just assumed they were representative of
the tech community at large. I will conceed you that there are obviously more
tappers out there (from the responses I have read on this list) then I had
imagined.

>
> >...prefering to just change the pins, and solve the problem on a more
> >permanant basis...
>
> Either a tuning pin is holding the position it is put in by the tuner
> throughout the changing environment, or it is not.  If tapping a pin
> achieves that objective, and does it with longevity, how is that any less
> effective than the replacement of the tuning pin?

I do not believe that it does, and I will hold to that point of view until my
experience shows me otherwise. I used to be a tapper... years ago. But then I saw
the light...hehe..

>
> >...Otherwise I refer the customer to a couple other techs I know that are
> >motivated to doing >the quick fix kinda thing. grin. No slant intended :)
>
> Depending on the circumstances, it's far from a quick fix.  The only
> motivation I have is to serve each situation as it dictates.  If replacing
> a tuning pin is in order, I do it.  If it's not, I don't.  No reflection
> meant  :)

We touch on another subject matter here.. I can only say that our objectives both
in regard to the customer, and whats best for his / her piano are the same. We want
whats best given what each of us regard the situation to be. For my part, I would
think you would be delighted to have a guy like me around your neighborhood, who
would consistently refer customers your way because of the awareness that you would
provide this kind of service in the most professional manner you are capable of.
That way we would all be happy. I wouldnt have to do something I dont find
acceptable, the customer gets the instrument fixed within his / her paramerters,
and you get work you enjoy, and do well. All is done politely, and proffessional
and with the greatest expedience.. Everybody wins.. or what ?? grin

> >
> >> ...I respectfully submit that the entire surface of the tuning
> >> pin hole is affected by this tap, thereby creating more than ample friction
> >> to introduce holding power once again.
> >
> >I think research into this matter will show you otherwise,, but if it
> >"works" for you.. great.
>
> The research has already been done for me.  I have had tuning pins go from
> a non-holding position to tighter than I like.  No way that little 3mm of
> wood you mentioned is doing that by itself.

Er... what research are we talking about... the "personal experience" kind ?? or
systematic charting of the real results in some scientific manner ?? Perhaps you
could refer me to some documentation ?? I just love reading stuff.

>
> >...actually I am suprised to hear from an RPT any positive comments about
> >this >proceedure..but each new day brings a suprise.
>
> Cheep...cheep...cheep shots at best.   :-)

It wasnt meant to be.. really. I am sincerely suprised that RPT's do this kind of
repair. This of couse is a fact I can not ignore, and for what its worth it gives
me pause to think and re-evaluate a bit. Tho I doubt I will change my mind much.
Really Keith.. based on my disscussions with RPT's through the years.. I had
thought and assumed this was a non point,, not up for discussion.. resolved many
years ago. Obviously I am mistaken in this much at least.

>
>
> Being an RPT doesn't change the truth about what I know to be true.  Take
> away the letters and the results remain the same, factual.  Actually
> though, Richard, I'm surprised that someone with I.C.P.T.G. &  N.P.T.F.
> after their name would have a contrary position, and from another country
> as well.  <twisting and turning in the hot seat  :) >
>

Well.... at least I am in good company. grin. Or do we ignore the opinions of the
likes of Jim Coleman, who started off this side of the argumentation ?? At least we
have something in common on this point.. we are both suprised at each other...
grin.

>
> >...Perhaps different climates have something to say in all this ??
>
> Perhaps.
>
> >Have you ever taken torque reading on these ??
>
> Yes.  My tuning arm and the passage of time has told me the torque reading
> is quite sufficient on the pianos I have done.

er... yes.. but have you ever taken real torgue readings ??

>
>
> BTW: I was particularly impressed with your trouble shooting on that Yamaha
> grand with the slight flex in the hammer rail!  That truly was superb!!
>

Grin... dont know whether or not you mean that or not... hehe.. but in any case All
the comments and advice I got from the posting was of immense help in leading me to
the right solution. Btw.. I found another brand new Yamaha C7 with the same problem
just yesterday. hmmmmm....

>
> Keith McGavern
> Registered Piano Technician
> Oklahoma Chapter 731
> Piano Technicians Guild
> USA

Nice playing ball with you Keith.

Richard Brekne
I.C.P.T.G.  N.P.T.F.
Bergen, Norway

PS.  was Born in Lincoln Nebraska.. have been a Huskers fan as long as I can
remember.. Oklahhoma ???? what is that a suberb of Dallas or something ??? grin.