Discussion among Peers (was: Lighten Touch)

[Farrell]

Hello Bill, I have to largely agree with Brian here. While your post has
much merit, I do not think it is my, your, or any of our responsibilities as
to what is done with the information thrown out on this list. I believe it
is up to each reader to understand and have a grasp of their own level of
competence on some of these subjects.

I read many posts regarding upper-level tuning concepts......and I gotta
admit, I don't have a clue as to what they are talking about. That is one of
the reasons you don't see me hanging out at the local concert halls telling
concert pianists that I am the best thing since the cast iron plate
regarding concert prep. I read a lot of stuff from Del F., Ron N., Roger J.
and others about stringing scales, ribbing patterns, and all sorts of stuff
that I barely have a grip on with my little pinky. But I think I'm getting
to the point where I might know who I would subcontract some of this stuff
out to.........and maybe someday I will experiment with these things.

I also have a copy of Gray's Anatomy. I am smart enough to know to not pick
up a scalpel. I'm sure there are those that are not that smart. This is not
the fault of the book's author.

Some folks will just jump right in with errant procedures - on someone
else's piano. But I think they will do that with or without this list. If
they don't get it from here, they will get something they don't understand
from a book, or from another tech who may be less well-informed than they
know. And they will botch up a job that way. Where there is a will there is
a way.

I suppose the best response to the subject post would have been something
along the lines of: "There are many causes or combination of causes that can
make an action feel heavy. One might start with considering the state of
friction in the piano, and if needed, consider the action geometry,
leverage, and component weights. Best though is to take an integrated
approach to such a problem by getting a good education in this area before
attempting a job on a client's piano action". And so on and so forth. But we
don't know his/her background, so individual suggestions are thrown out. One
is a fool if they implement one of these suggestions without a good working
knowledge of the subject.

The bottom line being don't take anyone's post to this list as gospel. Even
advice from a much respected tech could be poor because the original
question might be misunderstood - I have seen this happen many times on this
list - we tend to post casually, but we can't see each other's faces, and
thus sometimes our communications are not the best.

Unless you know someone (and you trust them) that has made a recommendation
on this list, I would always want to get a second opinion, or ask around at
your next local chapter meeting, or look it up in a book, or try it out
first on your own piano, etc., etc. Anyone that takes these posts at face
value is courting disaster. They are fools and they will be found out soon
enough.

Maybe we need to attach a disclaimer to our posts. I started to formulate
some thoughts in my head, but then I realized that would be a job for Ron N.
Ron?

Trying Desperately To Keep My Thinking Cap On
Terry Farrell


Brian Trout wrote:

Yes, Bill, that was a good post.

But one thing bothered me when I read it.  It may
be that I've misunderstood and I'm sorry if I
have.  Feel free to set me straight.

How do we have good discussion on matters of any
depth or complexity without saying things that
someone could use wrong?

Would it be better if this list was not so easy
to join?  Would we need to be RPTs to join the
list?

I'm not sure how you can make it better by
limiting the discussion to things that can't be
used improperly by someone.  And if it's best if
we keep the discussion to "how to tune a unison",
I'd have to say "Good-bye!"

It's those posts with some depth and insight into
areas some find "untouchable" that keep me coming
back and reading, which seem to be the ones most
in question as to whether they should be here.

What's the answer?  Restrict the discussion?
Restrict the topics discussed?  Restrict access?

Just wondering...

Brian






--- jolly roger <baldyam@sk.sympatico.ca> wrote:
> At 08:28 AM 8/16/01 -0400, you wrote:
>
> Hi Bill,
>            Excellent post,  point well taken
> about a little knowlege from
> the list.   And you advice to Ed about joining
> a chapter is the best
> freebee he is likly to get.
>
> Regards Roger
>


=====
Brian Trout
Grand Restorations
3090 Gause Blvd., #202
Slidell, LA  70461
985-649-2700
GrandRestorations@yahoo.com



----- Original Message -----
From: "Bill Ballard" <yardbird@pop.vermontel.net>
To: <pianotech@ptg.org>
Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2001 8:28 AM
Subject: Discussion among Peers (was: Lighten Touch)


> At 1:14 AM -0500 8/16/01, jolly roger wrote:
> >>You could start with screwing some jiffy weights on the undersides of
> >>the keys, and then maybe some clear nail polish on the hammers. If
> >>that doesn't work, check with us again.
> >>
> >>Bill Ballard RPT
> >
> >Hi Bill,
> >            Am I missing some thing? Sluggish and heavy action, where are
> >you going to screw these weights? <snip>
> >I don't like to see hammers treated with nail polish.  Use the correct
> >hardening agents, or just give them a good reshaping. This can also
reduce
> >touch weight.
> >I'm sorry if my response seems harsh, but both practice's are less than
> >acceptable in my book.
> >Regars Roger
>
> I figured that someone this wet behind the ears and who would
> represent himself to a customer as competent, simply on the basis
> that a piano technicians' internet discussion group would gladly jack
> him up to speed on 48 hours notice, deserves to start on the ground
> floor. What better place on the subject of "sluggish actions" than
> the two principles that mass *can* overcome friction, and dull tone
> *can* make an action feel sluggish. I did of course leave the door
> open ("If that doesn't work, check with us again") in the case that
> he discovered that these are complicated subjects required far more
> experience than can be downloaded on 48 hours notice.
>
> Back about six years ago, Bill Spurlock and I had an off-list
> discussion (back while he was still on the list) about the discretion
> that was required on many of these subjects, given that while through
> the associations engendered by organization sponsoring this list, we
> may have first hand knowledge of many of our fellow list members,
> there are many names whose experience we can size up based only on
> their writings. This doesn't include an unknown pack of lurkers. He
> was nervous about high level discussions among peers where the
> fundamentals were assumed and left unsaid. Our neighborhoods were
> filled with people attempting levels of piano work well above their
> level of experience. "Some of them even have modems," he said.
>
> Another example, off-list. I recently had a visit from a high-school
> classmate whom I hadn't seen in thirty-five years. (We had a jazz
> band together, a major experience for both of us.) He's a wooden
> sign-maker, but because he has always enjoyed music, he's been doing
> a little tuning on the side. So I took him around with me for a day's
> work. That evening, over gin and ginger tea, he mentioned that he was
> on his second pinblock, on a customer's Steinway A II. I asked him,
> pray tell, how did he index the plate/block/rim, and he said he
> didn't. I pulled the discussion over to the side of the road and
> explained to him his legal liability in the matter, and what he
> should do to recreate the original location of the block so that the
> necessary indices could be made. I'm sure I'll be answering a few
> more questions before it's all finished, and I hope that (being
> visible as him advisor) I don't become party to a lawsuit. No, he
> wasn't a lurker on this list, but he could have been. Taking only
> what he could understand and heading of into areas of work requiring
> far more. Meaning well, of course.
>
> This list may brand me as uncharitable, but I am not comfortable with
> this list as the primary learning resource for anybody just getting
> into the business. There are exceptions to this, but I allow these
> exceptions mainly on the intelligence and judiciousness I see in the
> writings of these individuals. Certainly, one formula for experience
> which is tried and true is an inventive amateur (in the word's best
> sense) and a piano which needs fixing. Better still is the student,
> the exercise piano, and a mentor right by their side to, sizing up
> what the student is learning and what he has to earn. Certainly the
> Piano Technicians Guild stands for education, and its "bricks and
> mortar" components (the local chapter meetings, the regional
> conferences and *inter*national institutes) do a very good job of
> this. I owe my career to the teaching of the Guild.
>
> But if there is one formula for experience which I'm not happy with,
> it's the inventive amateur, someone else's piano, and a subscription
> to this list. In regards this list, I'm even less happy with the
> "civilians", the plain piano owners who post asking for the value of
> their old Barkenschnorter Upright, or to estimate the cost of a
> reconditioning/rebuilding/rewhatevering of their piano, sight unseen.
> So call me uncharitable, but after reviewing Mr. Carwithen's posts
> from 5/20/01 on, I'd respectfully suggest that his professional
> advancement would be much better served seeking out the local Guild
> chapter.
>
> End of Rant.
>
> Bill Ballard RPT
> NH Chapter, P.T.G.
>
> "There are fifty ways to screw up on this job. If you can think of
> twenty of them, you're a genius......and you aint no genius"
>      ...........Mickey Rourke to William Hurt, in "Body Heat", discussing
arson.
> +++++++++++++++++++++
>
>
>
>