Piano wire quality

[Erwinspiano@AOL.COM]

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In a message dated 12/9/2001 1:43:21 PM Pacific Standard Time, Erwinspiano=20
writes:


> Subj:Fwd: Piano wire quality
> Date:12/9/2001 1:43:21 PM Pacific Standard Time
> From:<A HREF=3D"mailto:Erwinspiano">Erwinspiano</A>
> To:<A HREF=3D"mailto:pianotech@ptj.org">pianotech@ptg.org</A>
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> -----------------
> Forwarded Message:=20
> Subj:Re: Piano wire quality
> Date:12/9/2001 5:17:49 AM Pacific Standard Time
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> From:    JD@Pianomaker.co.uk (John Delacour)
> To:    Erwinspiano@aol.com
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> At 2:48 AM -0500 12/9/01, Erwinspiano@aol.com wrote:
> >                 JD
> >
> >              I was wondering your opinion on the quality of music=20
> >wire and how that has changed over time. Also I'd like to know the=20
> >specific differences and if those can be analyzed why can't we=20
> >prevail on some maker to manufacture it.
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> When I started in the trade we had a choice.  There was English wire,=20
> which was very well polished but far too brittle and probably bad in=20
> all sorts of ways -- at any rate it was impossible to twist eyes on=20
> it because they just snapped.  I never used English wire.  Some=20
> suppliers still had a small stock of Poehlmann wire but really the=20
> choice was between Giese and R=F6slau  either plated or polished.  I=20
> hate plated wire and have never used it, but I used Giese in=20
> preference to R=F6slau because it was much better polished and had=20
> better colour.
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> >        The reason I ask is that I, m curious to know if you have any=20
> >recommendations or favorite wire. The frustration is that sometimes=20
> >we (I) as rebuilders will change music wire on say a very well=20
> >preserved stwy,Mason or whatever and find that the quality of the=20
> >plain wire doesn't really sound as lively and tonally satisfying as=20
> >the stuff just taken off.
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> Yes.  Already when I began in trade, Poehlmann had folded, absorbed=20
> by R=F6slau I believe, but I have no details.  I was very frustrated=20
> when a few years later, Giese folded, giving R=F6slau the monopoly.=20
> According to my friend Richard Gardner, who is 10 years older than me=20
> and was apprenticed to Steinway London long ago (a very good=20
> rebuilder and technician), R=F6slau, probably just about this time,=20
> thought they could save some money by stopping making the proper=20
> piano-wire alloy and use the same slloy that they use for=20
> ploughshares.  It was simply too much trouble to make small=20
> quantities (nowadays) of the special steel.
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> When I was forced to change to R=F6slau, I noticed the difference=20
> straight away.  This was before I made bass strings.  The wire was=20
> not well polished and often I had to through a coil out because it=20
> was grey or black or pitted or of bad consistency.  The plain wire=20
> never looked the same as with the Giese; it has a cheap tinselly look=20
> with not enough nickel colour.
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> >  Also Often I have found Many scales set at tensions that Most bass=20
> >and string scale designers will say is to high but nevertheless here=20
> >is this piano 80 years later with the string scale that wasn't=20
> >supposed to survive and it has anyway and flying in the face of the=20
> >wisdom of this present day.
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> I told the story of the first set of bass strings I made -- a set of=20
> Bl=FCthner Style 7  (like yours) for two different customers.  From the=20
> beginning I had my Multiplan spreadsheet to do the calculations, but=20
> I had no experience and was using breaking strain lists for Giese=20
> wire.  Besides, I was not sure of the exact percentage of strain that=20
> I should use as a maximum.  Of course, it was my first commercial=20
> stringmaking work and I wanted to make an impression.  The tensions=20
> of the original scale seemed OK and I was very familiar with this=20
> model, so I stuck as close as possible to the original scaling=20
> principles, presuming that Bl=FCthner knew what he was at.  The two top=20
> singles broke in both sets.  Bl=FCthner had used Poehlmann wire, as did=20
> all the best German makers except for Steinway, who used an inferior=20
> American wire.
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> Read Dolge and look at the breaking strains Poehlmann achieved in the=20
> grand age in competition with all the others.  The figures are=20
> astounding!  Makers were demanding this, because there was a feeling=20
> that since higher tensions had so far led to a steady rise in the=20
> quality of piano tone, the higher it was, the better the tone.  Not=20
> every maker believed this and we find no excessive tension on=20
> Bechstein (a "sensible" scaler) or Lipp, who to my mind was the very=20
> best.  On the other hand Schiedmayer and many of the eastern makers=20
> used the increased strength of the moden wire to build very high=20
> tensions into some or all of the scale.  I keep a Schiedmayer=20
> triple-covered string as a souvenir; it is over 11 mm thick!  The set=20
> I made to replace that set, even after my mods, weighed 4.75=20
> kilograms.
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> I find that in the end -- after 80 years or so of normal use -- even=20
> these Poehlmann strings will break when excessive tensions were=20
> designed, but R=F6slau equivalents will break before they come to pitch=20
> at the first chipping up.
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> >  I once installed at set of Bass strings on 20's stwy L and was=20
> >displeased with the sound on notes 24.25, &26. I had measured the=20
> >diameters and the new ones were not so. The string maker stated that=20
> >the tension on those notes were at 70% of breaking strength so they=20
> >were scaled back. I had him make the original tension replacements=20
> >and installed them and success. That was 8 years ago and there=20
> >sounding great and have not broken
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> 70% is my maximum and I would use it only for the thinnest covered=20
> strings on some pianos.  Your man was right and I do the same with=20
> the top bichords of most Steinway models, not to speak of Yamaha,=20
> whose scales are awful.
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> >  The sound I'm describing in plain wire is a free well balanced=20
> >sound that is easily set in motion with a light pluck. That is=20
> >subjective I know but that's my computer description.
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> Yes, I know just what you mean.  I have a 1912 Lipp upright beside me=20
> with the original strings and pins (tight as you like) and you only=20
> need to touch the strings to get a lovely pure sound.
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> Two years ago I was invited to teach for two weeks in a college in=20
> Norway, and there I discovered some packets of a wire I had not heard=20
> of, though they were using R=F6slau by then.  I looked at it and it had=20
> a good polish and a good feel.  I began to run down my stock of=20
> R=F6slau and finally sent a large order to this other firm in Germany.=20
> I use this wire now for all plain wire strings and most covered=20
> strings.  Unfortunately the sizes from 23 upwards are a bit too hard=20
> for eyes and will break when twisted, so I am forced to use R=F6slau=20
> for some low notes.
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> I prefer the new wire, but it is not Poehlmann and never will be.  I=20
> have spoken to a very old English maker about analysing and=20
> remanufacturing Poehlmann wire and he was quite interested in the=20
> idea, but other things took precedence and I have not pursued the=20
> matter.  As you say, it is possible to analyse the alloy, but that is=20
> only a part of the solution.  How the wire is drawn and annealed is=20
> just as critical, and a lot of research would be needed to retrieve=20
> the lost art of Poehlmann.
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> >I am curious as to your opinion of the pure sound wire as well. The=20
> >list has done some discussion of this before but I don't recall you=20
> >being in on it.
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> I'm a newcomer and not a very welcome newcomer to certain people.  A=20
> lot of humbug reaches the list masquerading as gospel and I am not so=20
> green as to be fooled by it.  When it comes to bass strings, I need=20
> very little guidance from people who have never actually made a bass=20
> string let alone made thousands of sets of replacements and learned=20
> something new every week for 15 years in the process.  I always want=20
> to learn more and even further improve my work, but we gain an=20
> extraordinary intuition from experience and lots of mistakes and=20
> experiments, provided we don't become complacent, and there is no=20
> substitute for this intuition.
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> I have no experience of Japanese or American wire.  I would not be=20
> surprised if the Japanese eventually produce a wire that is better,=20
> as they already produce better pianos than the Germans in my opinion=20
> (NOT Yamaha!).
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> All the best,
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> John
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