Yes, I was, but let's be a little realistic here. (My comment here are based on my recollection of geography education from.....well, a few years ago - I couldn't find a geography textbook in my son's bookbag.) MOST of Japan is SIMILAR to Florida in that it is relatively humid for most of the year and does not experience extreme dry periods. Therefore, indoor relative humidities (RH) will tend to be high. And MOST of Europe is similar climate to MOST of mainland USA (and hey, isn't there Disney in Paris?). There may not be a Florida, but MOST of the continent is warm and humid in the summer and cold and variable humidity (dry to moist) in the winter (meaning high indoor humidities in summer and low humidities in winter). Yes, MC would be better to talk about, but who goes up to wooden objects and prods them with probes? Don't do it to my piano! But regarding the effect of temp of humidity, it doesn't matter too terribly much for pianos because (excluding an outdoor performance in April in London, or in Death Valley in February) we are MOST often dealing with a typically small range of room temperatures. The temperatures of the natural environments only come into play with their effect on the RH in the piano's indoor environment (and if you leave the piano outside, it won't be around long enough for anyone to yaak about anyway!). How this play out is like this: I grew up in Detroit - Roger Jolly lives in Saskatoon. Both get cold in winter. Saskatoon is almost always LOW humidity outside in winter. Detroit is low humidity for the 3 sunny days in winter and can be high (above 70% RH) on cloudy winter days. BUT when Roger or Derek turn the heat on in the house, the RH goes from 15% outside to 5% inside. In Detroit, indoor heat will take the RH from 70% outside to perhaps 20% inside (just giving common numbers off the top of my head - but I think they are realistic). So yes, climate varies here and there, but on the whole, MOST of mainland North America is humid inside homes in the summer and dry in the winter (on the whole, much like MOST of Europe). Given your concern about tying temperature in, even London is likely more like Detroit than Florida in the life of a piano - even though it is always raining in England - because the heat goes on in homes in the winter. The outside RH in England is likely similar to that of Florida. But, because folks turn the heat on in the winter in England, but do not in Florida, it is likely drier for pianos in the winter in England than it is in Florida. But I'm sure not as dry as Saskatoon! The bottom line is that before the 1970s, when Yamaha was selling most of its pianos in Japan, they seasoned the wood to perform well in a generally moist environment - the pianos did not commonly experience prolonged periods of RHs less than perhaps 30% to 40%. Then pianos got imported in the `970s and went into homes in places like Phoenix, Denver, Saskatoon, and Minneapolis (and even NY, NY). Pianos get blasted with the 10% RH for a few months. Pianos crack and fall apart. Yamaha then switches gears and dries the wood of pianos destined for these areas (read North America) a little more so that they won't crack and fall apart so easily. Maybe this is why I see so many pressure ridges in Yamahas in Florida? Terry Farrell Piano Tuning & Service Tampa, Florida mfarrel2@tampabay.rr.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Anthony G Caught" <caute@bigpond.com> To: <pianotech@ptg.org> Sent: Friday, February 09, 2001 4:09 AM Subject: Re: Grey Market > Terry, > > I assume that you are addressing me with this reply so I will answer. > > The humidity in Japan is not the same as the humidity in Florida. > > This is one dept. that continues to amaze me. For so may posts on the > humidity subject I can't recall anyone saying that the humidity is the not > same at different tempratures when we should be talking about MC in timber > at a Temp/humidity level. > > And the European climate is not similar to the USA. There is no Florida in > Europe. > > Tony Caught > Australia > caute@optusnet.com.au > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Farrell <mfarrel2@tampabay.rr.com> > To: <pianotech@ptg.org> > Sent: Wednesday, February 07, 2001 10:28 PM > Subject: Re: Grey Market > > > > Having some basic knowledge of wood and its properties, I believe it is > > POSSIBLE that a grey market Yamaha will perform less well in North Dakota > in > > the winter than in Florida or Japan (I don't know because I have only > > "experienced" them in Florida). And the European climate is similar to > that > > of the USA (except for England!). BUT regardless of what is, or what might > > be, or what might be good to have folks believe, I think you hit the nail > on > > the head. > > > > Just like USA companies - Yamaha is likely run by its marketing department > > and its investors, rather than by the little techies. > > > > Terry Farrell > > Piano Tuning & Service > > Tampa, Florida > > mfarrel2@tampabay.rr.com > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Anthony G Caught" <caute@bigpond.com> > > To: <pianotech@ptg.org> > > Sent: Wednesday, February 07, 2001 7:07 AM > > Subject: Re: Grey Market > > > > > > > Keith, Brian and List > > > > > > There is nothing worse than believing what you read in SALES PROMOTION > > > MATERIAL and saying that it is true. > > > > > > Keith, read between the lines, then tell me that > > > 1. You do not have a climatic condition somewere in the USA that is not > > the > > > same as the Japanese climate ? > > > 2. That because Yamaha makes pianos specifically for the American > climate > > > (USA does cover Florida, Alaska and Nevada I hope) I take it that what > > they > > > are saying is Yamaha makes THREE pianos for the American climate. > > > 3. Why is it that all the other piano manufacturers don't make pianos > for > > > different climates. Is a piano made in Europe only good in Europe. Would > > you > > > classify a Schimmell or a Bosendorfer or a Bechstein or or or as being > > grey > > > market pianos because they are not built for the American climate ? > > > 4. When Yamaha makes a statement like "THE PIANOS WE MAKE FOR THE > JAPANESE > > > MARKET ARE INFERIOR TO THE EXPORT PIANOS" Then I will believe that > > pigs > > > can fly. > > > 5. This grey market piano rumor was more than likely started by Yamaha > USA > > > or Yamaha AUSTRALIA or Yamaha whereever because the sale of these > > "imported" > > > pianos is affecting there sales. > > > > > > Brian and List > > > > > > These pianos are in most cases pianos from pratice rooms throughout > Japan. > > > These practice rooms are used 24 hours per day, students book time to > play > > > them. They are serviced regularly and climatic conditions are > maintained. > > > They have just had a lot of use, and they are still good pianos. Policy > > > states that these pianos are to replaced on a planned basis. > > > There are also a lot of privately owned pianos included in those > imported. > > > The Japanese attitude is "if it is ten years old, it's old" These pianos > > > have not been maintained properly nor have they been stored in the ideal > > > climatic conditions so I guess you are going to get a mixed bunch. > > > > > > But we are piano technicians, we should know what we see, say what we > can > > > prove and not pass on rumor, inuendo and other BS we should know better. > > > > > > Flame suit time but think before you answer. > > > > > > Tony Caught > > > Australia > > > caute@optusnet.com.au > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: <kam544@flash.net> > > > To: <pianotech@ptg.org> > > > Sent: Wednesday, February 07, 2001 2:58 PM > > > Subject: Re: Grey Market > > > > > > > > > > >...I have always assumed that it applies to an item that bears the > > name > > > > >of a certain manufacture, but has actually been made (even under > > > license) > > > > >elsewhere and is often a lower quality and cheaper item... > > > > > Brian Holden > > > > > > > > Brian, List, > > > > > > > > This is not the case. When originally manufactured, these particular > > > > Yamahas being discussed were just not designed to be marketed to > certain > > > > parts of the world. > > > > > > > > Here is one of their web sites with relevant info: > > > > http://www.yamaha.com/ycaservice/group004/fgrop004.htm > > > > click on - What About Purchasing A Used Yamaha Piano? > > > > > > > > Keith McGavern > > > > Registered Piano Technician > > > > Oklahoma Chapter 731 > > > > Piano Technicians Guild > > > > USA > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
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