inharmonicity and "Re: newbie questions: stretching"

[John Meulendijks]

I'm afraid I just have to reply........

I do state that degrees in inharmonicity vary. Very. Even within one
instrument. I don't see how you can make me say differently from the content
of my previous mail. I think it is a nice idea to leave texts unscattered.
Apologise for being a bit strict on this. Even so I don't put in extra
inharmonicity above what the piano tells me to do. I replied there to
someone who wants to know how many he/she should add.

I like your explanation of tuning on volume. Gives me something to think
over. To be (to) fast in answering I'd tend to answer that the volume of a
unison out of tune varies and therefor is concieved as being louder (we
focus on the loudest moments.). It is this varying that makes the beats. In
the bass I tune the contrabass (single stringed) mostly without any other
checks but octaves. And I feel very secure about it. Maybe I am using your
method there: listening to volume. I never get complaints about my bass.
Sometimes I don't agree with myself, then I don't feel that secure. But then
I use every possible extra help (aural). Mostly I end up with deciding on
the third and duodeciem.

greetings

John Meulendijks
Tilburg
the Netherlands

----- Original Message -----
From: Newton Hunt <nhunt@optonline.net>
To: <pianotech@ptg.org>
Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2001 12:14 AM
Subject: Re: inharmonicity and "Re: newbie questions: stretching"


> > degree in inharmonicity would not differ in the treble side among
different models.
>
> Sorry, inh DOES vary but a very small change in speaking length makes
> a huge difference in inh.
>
> > I tried to make a point that you cannot hear by ear how much
inharmonicity there is.
>
> True to a point.  Once understanding inh and stretch and how it
> effects double and triple octaves I know what I am dealing with.  That
> is experience coupled with understanding the effects of inh.  That
> will come with time.
>
> > The stretch you can put up on above that is what you can try to hear.
>
> Doing more or less stretch than the piano calls for is difficult for
> me as an aural tuner but I can do it easily with an EDT.  I am very
> easily confused so don't confuse me, please. Agree!!!
>
> > In the bass I try to do it but in the end:
> > checking myself by ear, I don't believe I do it
> > (Though stretching can be very healthy(smile).
>
> If it is a good sounding bass you stretch.  There can be no
> questioning of that.  How MUCH you stretch is an issue that will keep
> us tuners stretching our heads for ever and three days.  If you do not
> stretch the bass octaves the bass will sound constrained and
> constipated.  If it sounds free and open you are stretching.  I may
> stretch more or less than you do but that is a matter of taste and
> opinion not of science.
>
> There is an effect of stretch where the octave becomes louder than at
> any other setting.  This "power point" is very narrow and one has to
> move the tuning hammer very small amounts to find it but once you have
> hard this occur you will search for it in every tuning.  The effect is
> of the beginning of a beat that never resolves itself into a beat
> because the sustain does not remain long enough for it to resolve into
> a beat.  You know that out of tune unisons sound louder than in tune
> unisons.  The same is true for octaves so I intentionally use this
> effect to find that narrow point where I can create a louder octave
> with a beat that is too slow to hear.  It is a matter of phasing.  You
> can tune two strings so they sound loud and then change one string and
> you can make the sound diminish.  This is a matter of the two strings
> being in phase and then out of phase.  It is this phenomenon that I
> use in octave tuning and the octaves are stretched by a considerable
> amount.  I have had other tuners tell me they like more and others
> have said they liked less stretch.  The difference is a difference in
> esthetics not quality of tuning.
>
> So there.  Now you have ME confused.( I don't believe I really confused
you)
>
> Regards,
>
> Newton