Fw: Rescaling

[Erwinpiano]

  Ron

Thanks for the enlightened perspective. We can all be a little myopic at
times. Having been on this list for a while and guess what, I've had to
change my mind about some thoughts and ideas I had that frankly wern't very
well thought out.  There's always room for balance.

     Thanks for the different veiw points you all.
      Dale Erwin

----- Original Message -----
From: "Ron Overs" <sec@overspianos.com.au>
To: <pianotech@ptg.org>
Sent: Tuesday, July 03, 2001 6:43 PM
Subject: Re: Rescaling


> Phil and list,
>
> Newton wrote:
>
> >Most just follow what was done before.
>
> Phil Ford replied:
>
> >You make that sound like an insult.
>
> I feel sure that Newton would not have said it as an insult.
>
> >I'm one of those that just follows what was done before.   I suppose
> >I should refer to myself as a piano restorer rather than a
> >rebuilder.  That's what I believe to be my task.  I think there is
> >an obligation toward the people that built the instrument to put it
> >back as much as possible to the way that it was originally.
>
> That's fine, but it just depends on whether you believe your purpose
> is to restore something which was created at an earlier time to
> something resembling what it was, or whether you strive to update the
> instrument to something resembling the current state of the art.
>
> >If you do otherwise the finished product is not the maker's piano
> >but your own.
>
> There is nothing wrong with that, provided that you 'otherwise finish
> the product' with the full knowledge and consent of the owner.
>
> >I once went to a class given by Mr. Sanderson (whose name often
> >seems to come up in discussions of improving pianos).  He made a
> >comment which I thought was very much to the point and it went
> >something like this; well, you could redesign the scale on a
> >Steinway but then you really wouldn't have a Steinway any more you'd
> >have a Frankensteinway.
>
> You may well, but you might also have a Supersteinway, depending on
> the skill and tone building knowledge of the re-designer.
>
> >I start to worry when I hear the words redesigned or improved or
> >some variation thereof.  These words are often used by those that
> >think that new is better and technology is our friend.
>
> I don't worry about this at all. But I do worry about folks who put
> forward the view that certain pianos represent the ultimate of what
> can be achieved, and that further evolution is impossible. It would
> be wrong to assume that new is better, it could be or it could be
> worse depending on the knowledge, skills and commitment of the
> practitioner.
>
> >  the past didn't have our technology and in some areas they didn't
> >have our knowledge.
>
> Exactly.
>
> >But they were just as smart as we are, were tireless workers and
> >experimenters, and could play and hear just as well as we can.
>
> Agreed. And some today are tireless workers with similar abilities.
>
> >I believe many of their design decisions were made deliberately, not
> >accidentally nor through ignorance.
>
> Deliberately yes, but they like us today, must carry a certain level
> of ignorance since there is always more to be learned. Those who
> believe that there remains more 'performance' potential will be
> leading the charge. The charge never will be lead by those arrogant
> enough to think that they have arrived. When each goal is achieved
> there always will be another further up the road to be conquered. We
> build upon what's gone before. In turn, our thinking of today will
> superseded by future designers. That's the way it should be. In fifty
> years time, the worthwhile pianos of today should be rebuilt (and
> modified where contemporary thinking deems it appropriate), while
> today's 'rubbish' should be burned.
>
> >. . The Steinway B seems to be a favorite whipping boy of some of
> >these discussions.
>
> Only because Steinway are 'sitting on their hands'. The charge is not
> being lead by Steinway at present. Their designs are outdated. While
> the D is a reasonable scale (as the Yamaha and Kawai clones also
> indicate), the smaller grands from the C down inclusive leave much to
> be desired.
>
> >If you talk to pianists (who, not so incidentally, are the ones that
> >pianos are built for - not piano technicians) you will find many who
> >love that piano.
>
> Many still love 1960s E type Jag's too, but they're hardly state of
> the art in 2001.
>
> >  I have played on some Steinway Bs that will make you cry or laugh
> >out loud they are so wonderful to play.  I seldom have that
> >experience on new pianos with their low inharmonicity scales and
> >their properly designed thi!
> >s
> >  and properly designed that.
>
> Hang in there Phil, it'll happen one day.
>
> >I have the impression that there are many people who seem to feel
> >that if you just find the right formulas and right computer programs
> >you can design a perfect piano.
>
> You may be right, but I believe it's absolute nonsense. Formulas and
> computers are merely tools to be used by folks with a flare for
> design coupled with a musical sense. Computers are not designers,
> just dumb machines, and a useful tool for todays designers.
>
> >Then once this perfect design is achieved everyone can just build it.
>
> No they can't. Firstly, the perfect design doesn't and never will
> exist and secondly, there are pianos being built out there by folks
> you wouldn't trust to build a wheelbarrow.
>
> >The problem with this is that every piano will be the same.
>
> I don't agree (even the Hamburg and New York Steinway Ds are
> completely different beasts - yet they share almost the same scale.
> The plate of the New York piano is much heavier than the Hamburg
> piano, so they could never sound the same). Different folks like
> different tonal qualities and different piano makers will be just as
> different. Believe me Phil, the world won't be a boring place
> provided that folks can just get past the floored concept that only
> one piano maker can 'cut the mustard'. There are always several
> leading people in any age. Don't let the political rhetoric of
> marketing departments get in the way of the truth.
>
> Regards,
>
> Ron Overs
> --
> Overs Pianos
> Sydney Australia
> ________________________
>
> Web site: http://www.overspianos.com.au
> Email:     mailto:ron@overspianos.com.au
> ________________________
>