more on this temperament tangent

[Tvak@AOL.COM]

In a message dated 11/2/01 8:48:20 AM, Billbrpt@AOL.COM writes:

<< Did composers simply say 
to themselves, "Gee, I think I'll write a symphony in D just because I like D 
even though D sounds the same as all the other keys."? >>

No, because it doesn't sound the same as other keys.  Each single note sounds 
unique.  Even if there is no context, no chord, no temperament.  Just the 
single note.  And each one sounds different from the others.  Ask anyone with 
perfect pitch, they'll tell you the same thing.  Now, did Beethoven have 
perfect pitch?  I don't know.  But I do believe that he chose the keys for 
his works for reasons other than temperament.  I think his choices were 
purely "temperamental".

<<I find your statement at least as arrogant as you've accused Ed of being.>>

You're right...I didn't mean to escalate the discussion beyond an appropriate 
level of civility.  (I should "temper" my comments so that no one loses their 
"temper"!) I want to thank you all for a fascinating discussion which has 
made me think.  For instance, I wonder what was the intonation like in 
Beethoven's orchestra?  Today, professional symphony players play VERY in 
tune almost ALL the time.  I wonder if Beethoven's orchestra sounded more 
like one of our high school orchestras today? (intonation wise)  Did he 
choose the tonality of D for the NINTH SYMPHONY because it was one of the 
best keys for string instruments?  Not only can they can fly through the 
scalar passages, but their intonation will be much better in that key than, 
say, Eb major.  Not because of any temperament, but because the open strings 
provide a foundation of pitch.  Was he trying to insure that the piece would 
be played more in tune?  

As you can probably tell, I'm not sure anyone made me change my opinions in 
this chicken-or-the-egg topic, but the bottom line is...

<<Unless you can prove that Temperament has *no* influence upon composition,>>

No one can prove that, nor can anyone prove the opposite.  I don't think I 
can say that temperament had *no* influence on composition.  That's such a 
blanket statement. All I really wanted to take objection to was the comment 
that Beethoven wrote his Ninth Symphony in D because of the temperament of 
his era.  It's more likely he said, "Acch, I think I'll write a symphony in 
the key of D because D sounds unique und that's the key I'm hearing it in 
mein kopf---it's a good key for strings, flute, oboe, UND...I can have the 
tympani play motivic material---ACCHtaves F to F!!!"  But then, who knows?

I enjoyed the comments of everyone, on both sides of this issue.  Didn't mean 
to ruffle any feathers, really...

Tom Sivak