more on this temperament thing

[Paul Tizzard]

Hi List,

Apologies for picking up on this thread so late, but I would like to know
how to tune some of these Historical Tuning's aurally. On the List I've only
ever seen cent values for ETD's. Any info, would as always, be appreciated.

Paul Tizzard


----- Original Message -----
From: "Ron Koval" <drwoodwind@hotmail.com>
To: <pianotech@ptg.org>
Sent: Thursday, October 18, 2001 6:00 PM
Subject: more on this temperament thing


> Hello all 'temperers' out there.
>
> It's been a while since I've written on the temperament issue, but I'd
like
> to restate some of the ideas I've posted before. (this time no graphs, I
> promise)
>
> I hear from other tuners, that they would like to appreciate HT's, but the
> dissonences just get in the way.  I'm not surprised, considering the
choice
> of temperaments listed; Young, Kirnberger III, and the Coleman XI are all
> pretty strong choices!  There is an 'aquired' aspect to tuning in
> temperaments, and it becomes easier to accept 'stronger' temperaments the
> more they are heard.
>
> But back to the three listed temperaments.  Imagine someone trying Thai
food
> for the first time and unexpectedly gets a VERY spicy dish.  They may
decide
> not to eat Thai again, because it's too spicy.  Now, there are many Thai
> dishes that are not spicy, but because of the introduction, they may
decide
> to play it safe and not eat Thai anymore.
> Temperaments can be thought of like spice; it's best to start out easy,
and
> not get pushed away by too strong of a tuning.
>
> So...... to review, in ET, every third is tuned almost 14 cents wide of
> pure.  Once a third gets to more than 20 cents wide of pure, most first
> timers will squirm at the sound, because it's something new.  In our scale
> from 1 to 20, ET major thirds are more than half way to unacceptable,
giving
> the 'busy' sound that most of us are accustomed to hearing.
>
> In the Young, the biggest offset from an ET tuning is 5.9 cents, which
> allows the major thirds to progress from around 6 cents, to 22 cents from
> pure thirds.
>
> In the Kirnberger III, the biggest offset from an ET tuning is around 9
> cents, causing the major thirds to progress from 0 cents(pure) to around
22
> cents from pure thirds.
>
> Now at first look, these may seem to be similar, with the Kirnberger
having
> more purity.  WRONG!  This is where graphing the major thirds can help to
> preview the temperament.  The Young progresses evenly through the keys,
> while the Kirnberger has three pure thirds, (C,G,D) Two kindof ET thirds
> (A,F) and 7 thirds up around 20 cents from pure!
>
> The Coleman XI is the weakest of the three, with the biggest offset from
an
> ET tuning of 5 cents, giving a progression from around 8 cents to around
18
> cents from pure.  However, when playing triads, instead of just major
> thirds, the Emaj triad SOUNDS out of progression.  I think that this has
> something to do with beats combining and influencing each other.  In a
> triad, there is a major third, a minor third, and a fifth sounding
together.
>   All the beat rates combine to influence the overall effect of the chord.
> (Even the octave, if included has an effect on the temperament, as Bill
> Bremmer uses in his tunings.)
>
> So what to use for a first 'taste test'?  Good ones to try are the Moore,
> with the biggest offset being 3 cents, major thirds range from around 10
> cents to around 16 cents from pure.   Ab is the chord that sticks out in
> this tuning.  Or, try an equal beating Victorian type.  One that works
with
> offset tuning is:
>
> C  2.7
> C# -1.3
> D  1.8
> D# 1.8
> E  -.2
> F 1.7
> F# -1.5
> G  3.8
> G# 0
> A  0
> A#  .6
> B  -1.4
>
> This one has the largest offset of 3.8 cents, with the major thirds
> progressing from aound 8 cents to around 16 cents from pure.
>
> There are many mild temperaments to start the journey, and all
temperaments
> can be 'diluted' as well to maintain the flavor, while reducing the
impact.
> Remember, for offset tunings to work, your machine of choice must be able
to
> calculate a good ET first.  If you find that you have to make adjustments
to
> a machine tuning to get ET right, (like at the break) it's best to work
off
> of an 'adjusted' saved tuning to create an alternate temperament.
>
> Happy tuning!
>
> Ron Koval
>
> Chicagoland
>
>
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