ric wrote:
>
>I am only quibbling with the word "intonation" I have never heard it
>used in concection with the piano. Do you mean "intonation" to mean the same
>as "tempering" or something in addition or beyond tempering.
I use the word "intonation" inre the piano as in , the piano's temperament
IS its intonation.
> If you say tempering defines the intonation of the
>keyboard I suppose---but it would be interesting to hear from the
>musicians whose livelyhood bepends on good intonation (because that is
>something you don't have to worry about on the keyboards.)
Agreed, sorta. In Et, you don't have to worry about intonation because
everything is out of tune.
acceptance of this comes from ceasing the listening process at the pitch
level.
I said the ET was not a realized ideal,
Ric responds;
> ET satisfied a desire (ie,"it would be ideal to do this")
1. play in "all the keys". (The wells satisy this)
>>2. To have harmonies in all the
>keys sound "the same". (Something the wells couldn't do which while some
>people call this "key color" others call an incumberance or distraction)
If all keys sound the same, is there any reason to use more than one of
them? The baroque and classical and romantic composers exhibit some amazing
similarity in their regard for the effects from the keys. A quick read of
Rita Steblin's "Character of the Keys" will make this very evident. There
was some very common denominator in the key's usages.
In support of the "ideal" nature of ET Ric lists:
1. A standardization of tuning from tuner and tuner and instrument and
instrument.
Hmm, I thought we had already ascertained that all instruments require
different tunings, and no two tuners tune alike, (pre machine).
4. The desire for a "universal tuning" (again most call this
>"good", others call it, well I will let others supply the word(s).
The word I would use is "compromise". It completely removes any basis
for value judgement when all keys contain the same degree of dissonance.
That this compromise requires the loss of something as beautiful as a pure
third, or as emotionally affecting as a full comma in the harmony makes it a
very expensive choice, from the psycho-emotive standpoint.
5. Modern demands of the recording studio to have over dubbing done by
>different pianos in different studios.
This is a very specific and limited use of the piano, and today, with
the machines we have, it is a very simple task to recreate a tuning way far
away. Just post the numbers on the 'net and tuners world-wide can recreate
what is needed.
>6. and yes, there are economic
>ideals. ET is simply the "best way" a piano sounds. size to size, model
>to model, manufacturer to manufacturer.
I can't agree with the "best" part of that. I am having too many
pianists tell me otherwise.
7. The idea of "proportionality"
>that makers base their design on, ET provides this same "type" of
>proportionality in how their instruments will be tuned.
I don;t know exactly how Proportionality is a factor here. I do know
that the makers are basing their designs on an instrument that was designed
300 years ago. The string tensions are far higher nowdays, but the basic
problem of the comma is identical.
>9. The preference of player or singers for ET. (this must stand the test
>of time so I welcome repeating history in this one, or possible "new"
>temeperaments.)
Both voice instructors at the Blair School of Music are now much happier
with a Moore & Co. "Victorian" tuning than they were with ET. They feel that
the sound is "warmer", whatever the hell that means.
> These are the "ideals" I think ET is about, and the reasons.
>ET was arrived at by the desires of musicians for an "ideal tuning".
History seems to indicate that the use of ET only came about after the
musicians stopped tuning their own instruments, ie, when tuning became a
trade unto itself. This supports the economic model, not the aesthetic one.
>That it excludes artistic interpretation or inhibits it are opinions I hold
>the opposite to. I won't deny that a few might support another temperament,
>but as with anything in music, new ideas must stand the test of time in
>addition to sentiment of the moment.
Well, ET has only had, at most, 150 years of usage on keyboards, (some
would argue much less, the historically challenged would argue much longer,
but can offer no evidence of "how" Et may have been tuned prior to 1832. )
As far as "a few might support another temperament", I think it more
accurate to say that many are choosing to use a variety of temperaments,
rather than being restricted to just one.
>My sentiments are with ET. Do I feel this way to the extreme of excluding
the use of HT's? HT's have their
>place. ET has its place. We can't dictate the tastes or preferences of
musicians. <<
I agree, however, having access to only one temperament is limiting the
musician, so in that respect, their preferences are de facto'ed dictated,no?
This is the interesting thing about having a progressive school where I can
learn what students gravitate towards. I gave them a choice and they have
all gotten rather excited about it.
My point is that all temperaments have thieir strong points, and ET's
strongest point is its universal nature, like a universal bass string, or a
universal anything. There is nothing particularly magical about a third that
is 14 cents wide. ET is an averaged concept, and its use with specialized
music, like Baroque or Classical, will entail the loss of some important
aspects of the music.
So, to put my money where my foot is,(no Ron, not in my mouth!), we have
a masterclass at Blair this week. The instructor is nationally known and
teaches at one of the most prestigious schools in the country. The class
will be on Bach Mozart, and Beethoven. There are two Steinway D's on the
stage, and one of them is tuned in a Young. The choice will be his, and
nothing will be said beforehand about which is which, or even that there is a
difference. I am hoping to get some valuable feedback from this, and will
let the list know whether I am a hero or have crashed and burned on stage in
front of everybody.
Regards,
Ed Foote
(flame suits? nah, I'm already slightly burned out, but still smokin'. )
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