antares wrote: > There are a few points that I miss in either Mr Bremmers comment or yours: Hmm... well I was sort of replying to Bills point about tuning aurally sorta isolated fromt the rest of the discussion....so I didnt really address anything else said by anyone else. That being said.... I also would be the first to encourage the use of ETD's actively in our work. At least until one reaches the point where one simply doesnt need them anymore. Bill and I, (and others) have conversed a bit about some of the things we hear when tuning that most of us dont really use so much. I mean why should we...we have been taught to listen to one partial at a time. We strive to block out every sound except the one particular beat rate of that one particular coincident pair...everything else is in the way. While we certainly need to be able to do this, I have come to believe that that approach will only take us so far...ok pretty darn far... but only so far still. One can create a nice tuning with evenly dropping beat rates for decending thirds..etc etc... but perhaps there is something more that we can do ?? Bill talks about "colouring" octaves and Virgil talks about "beatless octaves". These are excellent tuners we are talking about, and I try figure out what sense there is in their way of expressing themselves... Tuning with ETD's also immediatly showed me some effects that can be created depending on how the totality of the tuning is executed. I remember my first reactions were on the lines of a "presence" the piano seemed to have. Especially noticable in the tenor and treble to me. So I try and listen...to see if my ears can "discover" how to do this kind of thing... and I start noticing things. But this involves listening in a way that has less to do with singling out coincident pairs, and more to do with how things sound in an holistic way. Coincident pairs gets you close...but you can go further...and thats where it gets fun. The whole thing has opened up a new world of tuning for me...perhaps a partial return to an older way of listening to an instrument during the tuning process as well. You see, I dont think many of us are ear tuners anymore... we are beat counters. There is a big difference. I think the integration of both approaches can give exactly the results and more that the ETD impresses us with now. And I think that if the Verituner is indeed a step further in ETD's.... an improvement as it twere... its because it does some of these things... it listens to all partials of all tones and attempts to create a balance between them. Thats seems to jive well with your report of VT being able to create a better solution on the second time around....And all that just tells me to listen more closely...that there is a lot we haven discovered yet.... even in relation to just plain tuning. Intonation...what does that word really mean ? -- Richard Brekne RPT, N.P.T.F. Bergen, Norway mailto:rbrekne@broadpark.no
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