Temp. comparisons:

[JStan40@AOL.COM]

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From: HazenBannister@cs.com
Subject: Re: Temp. comparisons:

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In a message dated 08/30/2002 4:13:45 AM Eastern Daylight Time, 
Richard.Brekne@grieg.uib.no writes:


>  but how is that line up with
> formal ear training and music theory at University level. Just what is
> it they are teaching these people ?
> 

Hi,
  I think this falls into the same kinda thing as the perfect pitch thread I 
posed a while back.You learn different intervals in ear training, and 
different relationships, not so much how they are tempered.I guess 
most musicians I have run across,are more interested in the overall 
performance of the piano,and the execution of the piece,than what temperment 
the piano is in,given that the piano is in some kind of good tuning.I enjoyed 

the different temperments at the Chicago convention,could I recognize them 
now by hearing again,most definitely not.When I played thirds going up,it was 

definitely different,as you said,that had to be noticed.But when I played a 
piece,it sounded wonderful,but you couldn't put your finger on what was 
different.
Just my rambling,
Hazen Bannister  

OK, guys, I gotta jump in here, having just retired from teaching freshman 
music theory and ear straining/sight screaming--uh--aural skills, that is!

RicB, musicians studying keyboard instruments at that level are not even 
aware that such a thing as temperament exists, much less why.  I always 
introduced the subject with a very quick synopsis of why it is 
necessary...but even the keyboard players' eyes glaze over pretty quickly.  
They are interested in developing technique, learning literature, stage 
presence (when they get to that point) and a variety of other things IN 
ADDITION to keeping up with other course work, much of which they don't want 
to take (at least at the time), which leaves not too many working brain cells 
left to consider the finer points of tuning, which someone else does, anyway. 
 You see?

Now, you and I (including everyone on this List and presumeably in the Guild) 
have a more immediate fascination with the subject of temperaments, but 
that's entirely different from the usual music students, even the talented 
ones.  We have such an almost morbid fascination with the subject that we 
even bore each other from time to time, nicht wahr?  Yet as RicM has pointed 
out--and I have spent enough time with RicM to know that his ear is just 
FINE, thank you very much--some people, even good techs, just don't happen to 
hear things in the same way, and miss out on the oft-times VERY subtle 
differences that others of us revel in.  

But as for what universities teach...........students at that level, 
especially in the first two years of study, are rarely at a place in their 
experience where they can adequately use the knowledge that we'd like to 
impart.......even in terms of the first two years of theory and aural skills. 
 That is a real struggle for some...and I have seen some of those very 
students succeed in that struggle and go on to productive careers, but I 
doubt they would have had the slightest idea of the subtleties of WTs vs. ET. 
 (Mind you, I'd much prefer they DID, but..........)

And then there are the others.....wind players of all types, string players 
of all types.....for whom the idea of temperament is largely meaningless in 
the orchestra.  In some orchestras it's enough of a challenge just to FIND 
the center of the pitch!

As Hazen says, you learn relationships, usually within the key, but also in a 
more abstract sense, between pitches...........and you learn to tune these 
intervals if you are either a vocalist or an instrument other than keyboard 
(yeah, I know, what about guitar........but that's a whole other story.)

So.......let's do what we can do to influence keyboard players who are 
capable of using the information, but as much as I wish it were true, I don't 
think that it's ever going to be uppermost in the mind of the average music 
student.

Stan Ryberg
Barrington IL 60010
Associate Member
mailto:jstan40@aol.com

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