VT and SAT III

[Keith Hamilton]

Great post Ron and very interesting. Would it be possible for you to
give the group your numbers in excel format so we could look at and
graph them for ourselves?

Keith Hamilton



----- Original Message -----
From: "Ron Koval" <drwoodwind@hotmail.com>
To: <pianotech@ptg.org>
Sent: Thursday, January 24, 2002 6:43 PM
Subject: re: VT and SAT III


>
> Interesting post, Jim.  Yes, when it is a musical test, over the years the
> tuneoffs have been pretty close.  Unisons, unisons, unisons, may be the
best
> advice for what to stress!  But if I read you right about the Wurlitzer
> spinet tuning:
>
> snip
> We measured all the significant notes which included the 5 A's, the notes
on
> either side of the stringing break on the treble bridge and the highest
note
> on the Bass bridge.  This circumvents tuning the entire piano as a first
> pass and then recalculating the tuning to get the best tuning for fine
> tuning.
> snip
>
> You guys did a single pass tuning in fine mode after the samples?  If so,
I
> think you only got as close as about 3 cents to a fully optimized tuning.
> As an experiment, today I checked with the Wurli spinet here, and sampled,
> and typed (and retyped)the results.  I'm including a *.gif file of the
> resultant graph of 4 steps of sampling.  Series 1 approximates what you
did,
> and series 4 is the final result.
>
> Series 1 - 5 A's and break notes
> Series 2 - add plain wire notes to just past the treble break (d5)
> Series 3 - C3 down to A0
> Series 4 - finish samples to C7
>
> I started by sampling just A4, then added the other A's.  These two
> graphlines are not shown.  It's an experiment I've wanted to do for some
> time; I wondered how much the tuning curve shifted with additional
samples.
> It's tedious, but if Paul still has the tuning saved, he can type out the
> tuning from 1- 88, then recalculate, and do it again to see how much the
> tuning shifts.
>
> Also when you wrote after retuning with the SAT III:
> snip
> We then turned on the Verituner and played all the notes of the area from
C3
> through A4 and the piano made the VT patterns stand still in every case,
and
> better than when I was tuning with the VT.
> snip
>
> What did the tuning numbers show?  Did you have trouble with the VT
display
> while you were tuning?  This is interesting, how you could stop the
display
> using a different machine, and "better"........  But take a look at the
> graph, in that section of the tuning, and up an octave, there is minimal
> difference between the curves.  Lower and higher, however, that's a
> different story.
>
> and then the conclusion of your comparison:
>
> snip
> I believe this shows there is not a dime's worth of difference in the
tuning
> ability of the tuning programs and in the various temperaments when it
comes
> to listening to music being played.
> snip
>
> I think we should add....
>
> When the pianos being tuned are matched Steinway L's.
>
> Moral of the story?  I think for the best tunings using the VT, adopt a
> two-pass method of tuning, even if the first pass is a non-tuning pass.
It
> takes me less than 5 minutes.  I believe the results are worth it.
>
> Ron Koval
>
>
>
>
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