Antares, Are you referring to the front punching or the balance rail punching? I can see if the balance rail punching was firm that there could be more energy transmitted (RE: the 'see-saw' analogy) and I can maybe see being able to feel the shock of hammer impact/action rail vibrations, etc., but I cannot see how the front rail punching being firmer could in any way produce more energy to the hammer...perhaps am I missing something...it wouldn't be the first time ; ) Could you expand upon this a little more please? Some of my other observations follow interspersed... > you just strike a key, you hit the bottom which is the > front rail punching right? you then clearly feel the energy from the impact > of the hammer against the string. But the hammer has already hit the string before the key bottoms so how can hammer impact be felt? > Some time ago I was in Korea at the Samick factory. > I had to explain why a harder or more firm front rail punching would produce a better (i.e. louder) tone. > right on the spot (boy, was I lucky... pfff) I found the perfect answer which they all immediately understood : > > Why does a tone get louder when you replace the front punching with a more dense one? How CAN it??? > We have to compare it with a seasaw on which two little children sit. One child pushes off from the ground, the other hits the ground. > The ground is soft because it is sand so the impact is not painful. OK..I can see that you already got it. > Now we replace the sand...it is hard cement. The child coming down hits the cement BAM! it hurts! and the other child on the other end of the the seasaw > is almost catapulted off into the sky. This is a different thing altogether...the other kid is 'catapulted' (well, not really...) because his seat has simply stopped... > The difference lies in the hardness of the ground, which, in our case is the > front punching. See my initial response at the beginning... > The opposite takes place as well but is a bit more dampened by the different > action parts absorbing the blow of the hammer against the string. You 'lost me' with that one... > Also, the hammer blow against the string causes overall vibrations > throughout the whole instrument resulting in vibrations we can perceive with > our sensitive fingers, just like you can feel the vibrations if you put your > hand against the side of the grand. I have no problem with that part... > So...the harder the hammer, the harder the impact, the more you can feel the > vibrations. OK > However, a stone hard new hammer causes less absorbtion of > energy through the keys. > A well voiced hammer, but not too much please, sort of 'spreads' energy > better and that we can feel easily in our sensitive fingers. > Using this method amplifies our perception during the voicing process and we > would be stupid not to use it. > Capisce? Not really, because while I believe that a harder front rail punching would allow one to feel vibrations transmitted through the key better than a softer one I cannot at all see how a harder front rail punching can 'cause' more energy to be transmitted to the hammer and thus the strings... > friendly greetings > from Antares, And the same to you, Greg Torres ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------- > > antares wrote: > > > >> Hi Avery, > >> > >> I learned this in Berlin (Bechstein).. > >> The instructor there (a Japanese guy) suddenly asked me this "when you > >> strike this key, what do you feel" (instead of what do you hear!). > >> I felt a strong tingling sensation under my finger and at the same time I > >> noticed that that particular note sounded very good and strong. > >> He then asked me to "try other keys" and I found out that they were not all > >> the same in intensity. Some were weaker, some stronger and a few had no > >> tingling at all. > >> Very interesting aye? > >> He then instructed me to "make all tinglings the same" and afterwards I > >> noticed that almost all keys now had that funny vibrating sensation and > >> that > >> most keys were very strong sounding. > >> The next procedure was to even out the volume. > >> > >> Result? > >> > >> Madonna Madonna! > >> Un Miracolo! > >> > >> > >> friendly greetings > >> from > >> > >> Antares, > >> > >> Amsterdam, Holland > >> > >> "where music is, no harm can be" > >> > >> visit my website at : http://www.concertpianoservice.nl/ > >> > >> > >>> From: Avery Todd <avery@ev1.net> > >>> Reply-To: pianotech@ptg.org > >>> Date: Sun, 30 Jun 2002 10:17:33 -0500 > >>> To: pianotech@ptg.org > >>> Subject: Re: Feeling the Hammers when playing > >>> > >>> Hi Andre, > >>> > >>> Could you possibly expound on this a little? Thanks. > >>> > >>> Avery > >>> > >>> At 02:44 PM 06/30/02 +0200, you wrote: > >>>> When voicing a piano we must always feel vibrations in the key. > >>>> No vibes, tone nor strong enough. By feeling the differences between the > >>>> keys we have a second sense to aid us in voicing. > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> friendly greetings > >>>> from > >>>> > >>>> Antares, > >>>> > >>>> Amsterdam, Holland > >>>> > >>>> "where music is, no harm can be" > >>>> > >>>> visit my website at : http://www.concertpianoservice.nl/ > >>>> > >>>> > >>>>> From: "Richard Brekne" <richard.brekne@grieg.uib.no> > >>>>> Reply-To: pianotech@ptg.org > >>>>> Date: Sun, 30 Jun 2002 14:36:06 +0200 > >>>>> To: "PTG" <pianotech@ptg.org> > >>>>> Subject: Re: Feeling the Hammers when playing > >>>>> > >>>>> Hi Patrick > >>>>> > >>>>> Say if you could remember the name of the instructor I would be very > >>>> glad to > >>>>> know who it was. > >>>>> > >>>>> I have no doubt that what we hear affects what we feel (or think we > >>>> feel) in a > >>>>> very big way... but I also wonder about whether or not we really do > >>>> physically > >>>>> feel the hardness of the hammers, and if so how and how is that > >> explained. > >>>>> Lots > >>>>> of ideas presented but mostly in the form of beponderments. > >>>>> > >>>>> Bill Ballard said something about how difficult it would be to find out > >>>>> anything definant... perhaps this is true but on the other hand it > >>>> would seem > >>>>> easy enough to ascertain whether or not pianists (or anyone else for > >> that > >>>>> matter) can indeed sense hammer hardness at the key or not. > >>>>> > >>>>> Would seem an interesting and kind of an important point to clear up > >> really > >>>>> when it comes down to it. > >>>>> > >>>>> Anyways, if you remember his name let me know > >>>>> > >>>>> Cheers! > >>>>> > >>>>> RicB > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> Patrick C Poulson wrote: > >>>>> > >>>>>> Hello All: I remember a discussion in a convention voicing class > >> about the > >>>>>> phenomenon of "psychoacoustics." The contention of the teacher, whose > >>>> name > >>>>>> escapes me at the moment, is that what we hear influences what we > >> think we > >>>>>> are feeling as we play the piano. A very bright piano will be > >>>> perceived by > >>>>>> many as being "easier" to play, because it seems louder and therefore > >>>>>> doesn't require as much effort from the pianist. Vice versa for a > >> very > >>>>>> mellow piano, where the pianist may have to play harder to get the > >>>> piano to > >>>>>> project. In both cases the pianist is not actually feeling the hammer > >>>>>> itself, but is reacting to the kind of tone the piano is producing > >> and is > >>>>>> automatically and perhaps unconsciously adjusting his or her playing > >> to > >>>>>> compensate for what the instrument is not giving. > >>>>>> Patrick Poulson, RPT > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> Richard Brekne > >>>>> RPT NPTF > >>>>> Griegakadamiet UiB > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > > > > > > Richard Brekne > > RPT NPTF > > Griegakadamiet UiB > > > > >
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