You didn't need a carrier to get it into the hammer? It's interesting that you thought it broke down to fast. Very popular in Europe, I believe. David I. ----- Original message ----------------------------------------> From: Paul Chick \(EarthLink\) <tune4@earthlink.net> To: <pianotech@ptg.org> Received: Tue, 16 Jul 2002 18:06:14 -0500 Subject: Re: Shellac vs. lacquer >David >Several years ago I had a pharmacist order some for me. It came in 4oz. >bottles and did not need to be reduced. Use with plenty of ventilation or >apply to hammers when you are laying down!?! Good luck! >Paul Chick >P.S. I didn't like it as well as lacquer. It broke down too fast. Try >sanding sealer and lacquer thinner, a 1:1 ratio in very small amounts to the >shoulders just outside the crown. Let us know how it works for you. >----- Original Message ----- >From: "David Ilvedson" <ilvey@sbcglobal.net> >To: <pianotech@ptg.org> >Sent: Tuesday, July 16, 2002 9:23 AM >Subject: Re: Shellac vs. lacquer >> All this talk about shellac, lacquer etc. and I remember a American tech >who lived in Copenhagen talking about collodian and ether. I know RicB also >talked about it. I don't think collodian is available in the states? >Couldn't lacquer thinner be used instead of ether...scary! I would like to >try collodian...in a hammer that is. >> >> David I. >> >> >> >> ----- Original message ----------------------------------------> >> From: Bill Ballard <yardbird@pop.vermontel.net> >> To: <pianotech@ptg.org> >> Received: Tue, 16 Jul 2002 07:36:08 -0400 >> Subject: Re: Shellac vs. lacquer >> >> >At 2:37 PM +0200 7/15/02, Richard Brekne wrote: >> >>Holy Christmas Bill... you used at least eight 67 cent words >> >>there... :) gets complicated for this Norwegianized mind of >> >>mine. >> >> >They cost me at least $4.95 apiece. You'll see a noticeable mark-up >> >in the invoices I'm sending out. The big challenge to the internet >> >economy is creating revenue streams out of all this digital traffic. >> >> >>If you want an idea of how Shellack is going to behave over >> >>time inside the hammer take a thick dense strip of felt (for >> >>example damper lift felt for the back end of grand keys) and >> >>soak a short strip of it in Shellack and let dry. The have >> >>fun playing around with it in as many creative ways as you >> >>can think of and check out how it reacts. >> >> >At 10:45 AM -0700 7/15/02, Susan Kline wrote: >> >>Now if you want the real gritty about what the stuff does to felt >> >>fibers, why don't you take a scrap hammer, soak it well in shellac, >> >>dry it out, vise it to something sturdy with the felt aiming >> >>upwards, and whack it with a mallet a bunch of times? Then take your >> >>knife, cut it open, and put thin slices on a microscope slide? >> >> >Sounds like the test for ductility of music wire. I was contemplating >> >something on the single fiber scale, and which would compare resins. >> >> >>As for whether this whole process leaves the elasticity >> >>decimated or not I dont know.... try stretching the strip >> >>above and see how snappy it is ! Tho I have to wonder if >> >>your segmentation would like reaaaly be synomonous with >> >>chopping the felt fibers into a million short peices with >> >>one of those Japanese knife thingys. :) >> >> >I should clarify. The elasticity I'd like to witness is that of the >> >resin by itself. Heck you could make a reinforcer out of watered-down >> >TiteBond. Its elasticity would be greater than keytop plastic. For me >> >what distinguishes these resins (lac bug stools, nitro lacquer, >> >shellac and keytop plastic) in their results is their springiness. >> >(Oh, cure time is also a major consideration, but in the scheduling >> >of the work, not necessarily in tone quality.) >> >> >I seriously doubt there is any chemical reaction between the felt >> >fiber and and the resins which would degrade the fiber (and >> >specifically, its elasticity). The behavior of the combination i >> >would bet is entirely a mechanical matter. >> >> >Under a powerful microscope, coat a single fiber. The fiber's >> >springiness is a known factor. The resin coating stiffens the fiber, >> >making it slower to bend under a deforming force (ie. collision with >> >taut music wire). But there's a big difference in how that fiber will >> >return from the deformation, based on the elasticity of the resin. >> >I'd like the resin with the greatest elasticity. Any coating can >> >stiffen the fiber, I'm looking for one which will contribute some of >> >its own elasticity to the fiber, after reducing the fiber's >> >elasticity. >> >> >Yes the breakdown is a significant determinant in the long-term >> >prospects for sound. Thanks to Richard for bringing this up. Imagine >> >the resin coating as a sheath. Its brittleness/elasticity will >> >determine how its will survive the flexing which occurs with each >> >hammer strike. (Certainly that flexing is likely to exceed the >> >elastic limits of the resin mainly at the strike point.) The >> >segmentation I was exploring happens when the flexing overcomes the >> >resin's limits. At that point, wouldn't the coating have fractured >> >into segments. And now, coating the fiber not as a single sheath but >> >in many short segments, wouldn't it it have lost the original >> >stiffness it had as an integral whole sheath? Would its effect on the >> >fiber now mainly be limited to its mass, now clinging on to the fiber >> >i separate chunks? >> >> >This is what pricked up my ears when Richard talked about the warming >> >of the sound as resin breaks down. I'm actually looking forward to >> >this process with shellac, because I haven't noticed it with keytop >> >plastic. >> >> >At 10:45 AM -0700 7/15/02, Susan Kline wrote: >> >>P.S. A blow-by-blow of your return visit to voice that set of >> >>hammers would be very welcome! I've used shellac for voicing, but >> >>never for building up a new set of hammers from scratch before. >> >> >I will probably do the report tomorrow night. Tuesday is one of three >> >nights per week during the summer when I have two concert running, 45 >> >minutes drive apart. >> >> >Briefly, this is a D with the whole nine yards done last year (I did >> >a new action with complete Stanwood), sitting in a concert shed >> >(http://www.svac.org/2002_final/wed.html), with a theater stage and >> >proscenium. I didn't push the reinforcing too hard last season, as >> >I'm a firm believer in the "work-hardening" of the strike point. But >> >the time hard come to make the piano project. So from that >> >standpoint, the shellacing is part of the initial set-up. I got over >> >there yesterday and found the piano much as I remembered it from the >> >week before (and anticipated finding it). So 1.5 hours of loud >> >voicing (with Zen Reinhardt's "racket-ball"), mezzo, then U.C., and >> >finally quiet voicing. The piano is no ready for the opinions of >> >others. >> >> >Bill Ballard RPT >> >NH Chapter, P.T.G. >> >> >"I gotta go ta woik...." >> > ...........Ian Shoales, Duck's Breath Mystery Theater >> >+++++++++++++++++++++ >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >>
This PTG archive page provided courtesy of Moy Piano Service, LLC