Greg, Are you trying to paint me as some sort of fanatic or as someone that is inconsistent with his own views? To remove any confusion about my approach to piano rebuilding let me clarify. I find both knowledge, and inspiration from how these pianos (S&S and M&H grands from 1880 to 1930) were built and from their aesthetic principles of tone and touch. I am not a fanatic that thinks that blindly following this course will answer all the questions. My approach is similar to what I see with people who make replicas of early pianos. Aesthetics are the guiding principles behind their decisions. Most of these pianos are not exact replicas. They make changes to the design and materials if they feel that it would make the piano more durable or make it easier to service. They are not slaves to antique tool and method but use a mixture of hand tools and modern power tools - whichever works best. Some even make changes to the design in order to save cost. But any of these changes are only made if they do not compromise the aesthetic goal which is to bring these pianos back to life. I have made many changes to how I re-build Steinway and Mason & Hamlin grand pianos over the years. Some of them in order to improve durability or to make then easier to service and others to modify tone and touch. The gaul of these changes is to bring these pianos back to life for the pleasure and refection of music lovers. Whether I meet this goal or not I know I do not want to end up with an instrument that sounds and looks like it was reborn as some sort of Frankenstein's monster; an exuberant experiment showing off it's creators latest ideas and to hell with any semblance of what it once was. I will get to your other questions about rib crowning once the waters become a little clearer. John Hartman RPT John Hartman Pianos [link redacted at request of site owner - Jul 25, 2015] Rebuilding Steinway and Mason & Hamlin Grand Pianos Since 1979 Piano Technicians Journal Journal Illustrator/Contributing Editor Greg Newell wrote: > John, > I think I see your line of thought here. You have exclaimed that > you rebuild with the same techniques you have found on the piano > originally. Did I paraphrase that correctly? If so how can you tell if > the original bridge was intended to be crowned from the factory or if it > simply took on it's curvature from being mated to the soundboard panel > for 'lo these many years? I gleaned from your web site that you > pre-crown the ribs prior to gluing them to the new soundboard panel. > Correct? Are you able to ascertain from the originals what the arc was > intended to be or is that subject to some change throughout the years? > Is there documentation to support any originally designed crown? Did S & > S and Mason and Hamlin crown ribs originally and for some unexplainable > reason abandon the practice? I'll stop here so as to not burden the list > with too many questions at once. Thanks to all for your indulgence. > > Greg > > > > At 08:13 PM 4/12/2003, you wrote: > >> Greg, >> >> Ron's question was: >> >> >> > John, >> >> > How then does this correlate with the number of new Steinways we see >> >> > (often enough on the showroom floor) with concave crown in the >> killer >> >> > octave? It seems to me that if a crowned bridge is supporting >> >> soundboard >> >> > crown and making it last longer, there ought to be soundboard >> crown to >> >> > show for it. Especially in a new piano. >> >> My answer in short is: >> >> We see these problems because of a lack of craftsmanship not >> necessarily because crowning the bridges doesn't work. I don't know if >> it really helps or not but if it doesn't help it is not an explanation >> for why the pianos made today have these problems. I also tried to >> explain why there is a lack of craftsmanship today. >> >> John >> >> >> >> >> Greg Newell wrote: >> >>> John, >>> I'm confused. Exactly which question did you answer here? >>> Greg Newell >>> >>> >>> At 05:24 PM 4/12/2003, you wrote: >>> >>>> Phew Ron, >>>> >>>> Are you sure you what me to answer all of these questions? I feel >>>> like a general at a CENTCOM briefing. I can' answer all of this at >>>> once so let me bite off one and see how it goes. >>>> >>>> >> I have worked on many brands of grand pianos and have observed that >>>> >> some pianos seem not to have this feature but the two brands that >>>> >> consistently show evidence of bridge crowning are Steinway and Mason >>>> >> and Hamlin. >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > John, >>>> > How then does this correlate with the number of new Steinways we see >>>> > (often enough on the showroom floor) with concave crown in the killer >>>> > octave? It seems to me that if a crowned bridge is supporting >>>> soundboard >>>> > crown and making it last longer, there ought to be soundboard >>>> crown to >>>> > show for it. Especially in a new piano. >>>> >>>> Since my rebuilding process involves soundboard replacement I usualy >>>> work on pianos that are over the hill - say 40 years old or more. I >>>> don't expect to see very much crown left at this stage no matter how >>>> well made or what design principles were used. As far as how new >>>> pianos are fairing; all I can think is that we are simply not living >>>> at a time in history that is conducive to building fine pianos. We >>>> no longer have the cheap skilled work force or the economic momentum >>>> (competition for a growing marker) that was the fertile environment >>>> that nurtured these fine instruments. Furthermore, and most telling >>>> is how far we are removed from the aesthetic soil that gave rise to >>>> a true renaissance in piano building. The public's ears are no >>>> longer attuned to the subtleties of tone and fewer and fewer of them >>>> would know the difference between the frogs seen in hotel lobbies or >>>> the finely prepared pianos of Carnegie Hall. Now days we are lucky >>>> if a few pop out the factory door without fatal flaws. >>>> >>>> Fortunately the news is not all black for us technicians in this era >>>> of shrinking interest in the piano. There are still a few great oaks >>>> standing in the old growth forest. They with there followers are >>>> still interested in the piano and the music written for it. I can't >>>> think of any of them that I have met that would not want their piano >>>> to sound and play as well as those built at the height of the golden >>>> era of piano building. It is their hope as - I hear it - that >>>> playing these pianos will give them greater insight into the music >>>> they love to play. I think that studying these instruments is vital >>>> to us technicians - and not just studying how they don't work but >>>> how they do work. >>>> >>>> John Hartman RPT >>>> >>>> John Hartman Pianos [link redacted at request of site owner - Jul 25, 2015] >>>> Rebuilding Steinway and Mason & Hamlin >>>> Grand Pianos Since 1979 >>>> >>>> Piano Technicians Journal >>>> Journal Illustrator/Contributing Editor >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> pianotech list info: https://www.moypiano.com/resources/#archives >>> >>> Greg Newell >>> mailto:gnewell@ameritech.net >>> >>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >>> _______________________________________________ >>> pianotech list info: https://www.moypiano.com/resources/#archives >> >> >> >> -- >> John Hartman RPT >> >> John Hartman Pianos [link redacted at request of site owner - Jul 25, 2015] >> Rebuilding Steinway and Mason & Hamlin >> Grand Pianos Since 1979 >> >> Piano Technicians Journal >> Journal Illustrator/Contributing Editor >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> pianotech list info: https://www.moypiano.com/resources/#archives >> > > Greg Newell > mailto:gnewell@ameritech.net > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > pianotech list info: https://www.moypiano.com/resources/#archives --
This PTG archive page provided courtesy of Moy Piano Service, LLC