Hi, Yes, yes, I replace the board ... Who is willing to pay for that , particularly when the people have been so much prayed their mathusalem old instrument ?. On one hand I have professionals, teachers, schools, that are persuaded that repairs generally are of no value, because of so many deceptive repairs they see around (for instance that perfectly rebuild Pleyel concert action that was fitted on a concave keybed (1/2 inch under the front rail, I let you imagine the feel of the keyboard). On the other hand I have a few people asking me to salvage their grand pianos, build in 1935 to 1950, with crowned ribs on some, flat ribs on others, but clearly sunken boards in either case. I've been asked to rebuild an Erard grand concert from 1936 , the piano is living in 30% HR since a few years, the board shows numerous cracks, the case is a lot of work too, the tone is thin, but a bit is remaining of what it possibly was. The institution have been so much told that this was a piece of high historical value that thy possibly will find a large amount of money to have everything made on this instrument. Even for that amount (!) I am unsure I can replace the board and do or have done all the remaining work, as original refinishing of the veneer, turning new wooden threads for the feet, new felts everywhere, strings, , tuning pins, etc. Replacing that board with a modern one does not seem to restore the kind of tone the piano had, using modern strings could be a disaster, gluing new hard pressed hammers is a mistake, and the list goes on. If I where to replace the board on this piano I should understand how the original one was fitted and build primarily, then build or have build an approaching one, with wood of choice, then pray for the tone to be not too much modern ! Precedent appraisal where yet almost half from my price, and with the usual "traditional" repairs that we know actually don't really provide a large musical palette, only a piano playing more comfortably (and modern strings, refelted hammers, lot of compromising) So once again, the board will be shimmed, and the customer advertised that the restoration will not provide a powerful instrument, even if it can be fun to play . Then with the help of DC systems the piano should be leaved in a quieter environment than actually. Beside, even on more recent instruments, even a not very technical minded customer will ask if changing the board will not completely denature the tone of its instrument (hopefully for the better I admit). Selling a new board on these that need it the most seems a complicated task to me, and the few essays I've seen made by colleagues where done without hot box and such so the result was poor IMHO. How do you evaluate the cost of a soundboard replacement in a rebuild ? I'd say that I am not persuaded that fitting a modern Ciresa soundboard will do what we are expecting there (mostly because it should be done with the same idea and process than originally, and I don't believe they work like that). I was lucky enough to hear a large sampling of our older instruments, when they where yet in better condition (and when restorers have been able to use the same kind of strings than originally for instance. This have turn to be very complicated now, so may be reengineering the instrument is a preferable option. I will say I can't do that kind of work in regard of soundboards myself, so here is the limit for the moment. On more recent pianos I am tempted to try that ASAP for sure, but not on an historical piece of art. Hope not too long or unclear. Thanks for your thoughts. Isaac OLEG > > Isaac, > I've used both Weldwood and Titebond. Just seems a > bad idea. I'd > rather replace the board. > > Greg Newell > > > > > > At 04:45 AM 4/16/2003, you wrote: > > >Hello, > > > >I by chance did not see yet (more recent) shims of mine > cracking, but > >since I uses a router to open the crack, the joint is > cleaner and not > >made of crushed wood. > > > >I still wander what glue of choice to use on these shims, Plastic > >resin from Weldwood (UreaFormalheyde monocomposite), Titebond ((I > >doubt). We have in Europe Caurite which is too a > UreaFormol , but the > >joint may be the thinner possible (no strength of the glue > by itself). > > > >What are you using generally (if you don't mind ?) > > > >And yes almost all the shims that have been made 10 to 15 years ago > >are opening again on almost all the instruments I see. > > > >best Regards > > > >Isaac OLEG > > > >Entretien et réparation de pianos. > > > >PianoTech > >17 rue de Choisy > >94400 VITRY sur SEINE > >FRANCE > >tel : 033 01 47 18 06 98 > >fax : 033 01 47 18 06 90 > >cell: 06 60 42 58 77 > > > > > -----Message d'origine----- > > > De : pianotech-bounces@ptg.org > > > [mailto:pianotech-bounces@ptg.org]De la > > > part de Greg Newell > > > Envoyé : mercredi 16 avril 2003 04:39 > > > À : Pianotech > > > Objet : Re: Restoring crown in old soundboards > > > > > > > > > > > > Keep watching! You'll almost be able to see them crack > > > before your very eyes. > > > > > > Greg > > > > > > > > > > > > At 07:50 PM 4/15/2003, you wrote: > > > > > > >While the list is discussing soundboard crown at the > > > moment, I thought I > > > >might mention that a piano dealer sent a 100 year old > > > Steinway grand with a > > > >badly cracked soundboard back to the factory in Hamburg > > > for restoration. > > > >Well, £8000 ($12k) and 3 months later it came back > > > sounding perfect. To my > > > >surprise, I was told that, the factory did not install a > > > new soundboard but > > > >instead repaired the original by shimming, i.e. filing in > > > the cracks with > > > >those V shaped wedge fillets. > > > > When I was at piano college we were told that this is a > > > method used to > > > >restore crown "in situ" as it were. The theory, I suppose, > > > is that if you > > > >wedge more material into the panels, it will force the > > > panels to bow or bend > > > >back into shape. I have not yet had the opportunity to put > > > this to the test, > > > >but have any of you tried this method or think it feasible. > > > > > > > >Regards > > > >Alan Forsyth > > > >Edinburgh > > > > "Madam, all pianos sound horrible, but if you play > > > music on them they > > > >sound very nice!" (from my forthcoming book, "A Day In > > > The Life Of a Piano > > > >Tuner" by yours truly) > > > > > > > >_______________________________________________ > > > >pianotech list info: https://www.moypiano.com/resources/#archives > > > > Greg Newell > > mailto:gnewell@ameritech.net > > > >_______________________________________________ >pianotech list info: https://www.moypiano.com/resources/#archives Greg Newell mailto:gnewell@ameritech.net
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