Hello, thanks for answering so fast ! I believe I understand why you like less dense felts for the pianos you work on - if I understand a tad what kind of tone the American made pianos are for. What I don't really understand is if this is due to the kind of soundboard build (very light and may be flexible) , the strings scaling, or a whole based on the kind of tone you prefer. I see that European instruments, are generally more oriented to a more dense tone , the French trade being a little different but still some density is present even on open tone pianos. Too light felt in the idea you give me will not really work well in all registers on the French pianos I have in mind (1930-1950) because the where yet aiming for some power with the iron framing, they don't like hardness, the molding is generally light and thin , but not as much as for forte pianos or such. Never seen as soft a felt as in US Steinways for instance. More often multy layered hammers where used to try to have a dense foundation in the middle of the hammer, while the external layers where softer. "German felt" is not saying so much to me, I made a search on the Germany phone book and more than twenty felt makers are yet present in Germany, as You may have read on my last post I know yet 2 possibilities for sure, between VFG and Wurzen, but I've been told others produce felt for pianos. We are trying to find more precise information with my friend Stephen Paulello (which is preparing the building of a series of 2.17 M grand's) It could be a tad of a problem if some hammers in a set where so bad I should use 2 sets for one piano (I've done it yet with Runners, but for sure don't like the idea much). Hand made does not mean every individual hammer is pressed separately I guess (is not the Dodge machine allowing for a full set at once ?) But I understand inconsistency may shows up in the process of tensioning and gluing, of course when the felt is in the cauls there is little control on what happens. Our French re-felter use a modern Renner machine to put the felt in shape, possibly with some warmness, before gluing it cold with its old almost wooden hammer press (with the large screws they have to turn everywhere to press the cauls. They have sometime very nice results but it is not often enough in my opinion, and most technicians here seem to live with that and not asking more unfortunately. SO we see many sets that are lacquered immediately, and in my opinion the tone is very limited when doing so (even if it can be fairly acceptable for sometime) Particularly with the Laoureux felt, once lacquered, tension is almost inexistent if it have been compressed a bit to begin with. I have no experience in shaping a whole set (before wiring it I guess) and I am afraid I should do insufficient work on those matters. Is it a very difficult task to learn (I've seen it done, but still ...) Thanks anyway for the information about that light felt specialty, I'll keep that in mind. I guess I will begin using a vertical set for a Pleyel N?3 that I own, Ill get a feel for these hammers in the process I hope. I can drill so that is enough a good thing for a beginning ! For sure these hammer's questions are one of the most concerns (even if I begin to be better at ease with actually) For scaling and belly work I have plenty of good help (a little too much sometime), while basically I am more a technician, finisher, tuner, I try to obtain some skills in basic intelligent rebuilding (more real than the ones I learned twenty years ago). That is the reason of so much questions I ask. Being not an expert in woodworking, I have many roads to cross, but things evolve, with time (and I have a real shop with some real tools also !!!). My Very Best Regards to you. Isaac OLEG Isaac OLEG Entretien et reparation de pianos. PianoTech 17 rue de Choisy 94400 VITRY sur SEINE FRANCE tel : 033 01 47 18 06 98 fax : 033 01 47 18 06 90 cell: 06 60 42 58 77 > -----Message d'origine----- [link redacted at request of site owner - Jul 25, 2015] > Envoye : vendredi 18 avril 2003 23:17 > A : oleg-i@wanadoo.fr > Objet : Re: Rebuilding for Performance or Show? changes - > Isaac OLEG's > list > > > Isaac OLEG wrote: > > John, > > Thanks, I had a look at your site , I liked what I've seen. I have > > seen some vertical hammers made by Ronsen in Paris (not > in a piano) > > and I was surprised by the nice resiliency this have. The shape is > > surprisingly near of the old French pianos I know. > > If the Dodge machine is used we can expect the tension to > be fairly > > nice in the process I guess. > > > > I Emailed Ronsen to ask if he could make some replications , for > > instance I have a set with a few particular sizes as 14 > mm on only the > > few heads near the break. > > I guess it is easy to do, but I hope also that the price will be > > "normal". > > > > Thanks anyway, for these info, your articles (nice rule > B.T.W !) and > > your recent participation to the forum. > > > > Talking about felts and Hammers, Renner can provide not so hard > > hammers lately (since 5 years approximatively) while they > begin to use > > only Vurzen Filz for their hammers. > > This felt is much more mellow that what we where used to, > and react > > very nicely to needling. > > The inside is yet a bit dense, but the tone is perfect > for all German > > pianos (Viennese or Hamburg) since 1930 I'd say. > > We have to ask for medium or light pressing, of course > their felting > > machines don't give much tension originally that is the > main problem I > > guess. > > > > With the correct needling we can harden them or soften > them, but still > > for French piano they are too "massive" and modern tone giving I'd > > say. > > > > With best regards > > > > Isaac OLEG > > Isaac, > > Just a few points about Ronsen hammers. I have been using > their hammers > for over 15 years. At this time they offer hammers with > either Bacon > felt or German felt. The Bacon felt is a little less dense than the > German felt. In earlier years the felt was even less dense. > I have been > using the bacon felt preferring it to the German felt. But > I would like > see the felt be even less dense as it once was. > > I work on mostly Steinway pianos from 1880 to 1930 and have > measured > many original hammers. Some of these pianos had very light > hammers by > today's standards. The Ronsen hammers being made today > with Bacon felt > are what I would call medium weight. They are light > compared to most > hammer on new pianos but are still too heavy for some of > the pianos I > work on. Some times I remove a lot of felt to get the > hammer weight down > but there is a limit to how little felt the hammer should have. > > I can understand your problem finding suitable hammers for > some of the > antique pianos you work on. You may ask Ronsen to use some > of the older > "extra light" felt they may have laying about. I know they > use this when > making hammers for square pianos. > > If you don't mind I would like to give you some advice. The > shaping, > trimming and boring done at Ronsen is not the very best it > could be. I > recommend doing as much of the work yourself in order to get good > results. Also the hammers are hand made and often have more > than a few > defective hammers in a set. You should plan on this and > keep an extra > set on hand to provide for missing hammers. > > I look forward to talking with you more about hammers. > > John Hartman RPT > > John Hartman Pianos [link redacted at request of site owner - Jul 25, 2015] > Rebuilding Steinway and Mason & Hamlin > Grand Pianos Since 1979 > > Piano Technicians Journal > Journal Illustrator/Contributing Editor [link redacted at request of site owner - Jul 25, 2015] > > >
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