even balance weight or something

[David Love]

Should read... displace and average of 8 grams of FW...

David Love
davidlovepianos@earthlink.net


> [Original Message]
> From: David Love <davidlovepianos@earthlink.net>
> To: Pianotech <pianotech@ptg.org>
> Date: 4/28/2003 6:41:06 PM
> Subject: Re: even balance weight or something
>
>
>
>  I'll stick my neck out and say that you could easily establish a
standard.
> If you could poll all pianists about their likes and dislikes, have them
> sit down to a row of mute pianos and just feel the actions, my bet is that
> there would be a fairly normal bell shaped curve with a standard deviation
> that would bring 95%of the players within a fairly narrow range of balance
> weight and regulation specs.  Some of the outliers might actually be
> personal preference, some might be misperception.  Tastes may also have
> something to do with what people are used to.  Once you've learned to get
> what you need out of that 1970's B with more lead than wood in the keys,
it
> feels normal to you. Over the past couple of years,  I have defaulted
> almost everything to a narrow range of 34 - 42 balance weight with front
> weight maximums in the 85 - 90% range depending on requests of lighter
> versus heavier and the particular set of hammers.  Regulation specs have
> always taken priority and I have not deviated far from 10 mm dip delivered
> by a SBR of 5.6 - 5.8.  If I had to choose a standard it would be smack in
> the middle:  38 balance weight, 5.7 SBR which produces a regulation of 10
> mm dip, front weights below maximums by 10 -15%, and whatever the SW zone
> that both fits into all that and is realistically acheivable with the set
> of hammers you have.   Setting the action up with an adjustable rep spring
> to get you that entire range quickly (if you wanted to) would mean that
the
> rep spring would need to displace an average of 8 grams of BW (lower is
> better in my opinion).  With a midrange default of 38 BW, to get to 34 BW
> you would then have to go up to 12 grams for the rep spring, and for 42
> down to 4 grams leaving you a comfortable margin of error.  My guess is
> that you would have very few complaints
>
>  David Love
>  davidlovepianos@earthlink.net
>
>
>  > [Original Message]
>  > From: Phillip Ford <fordpiano@earthlink.net>
>  > To: <pianotech@ptg.org>
>  > Date: 4/28/2003 1:47:43 PM
>  > Subject: Re: even balance weight or something
>  >
>  > I received this e-mail privately from Rich Olmsted and am responding to
> the list with his permission as I thought this was interesting and I think
> contributions to the list from pianists are valuable.
>  >
>  > At 08:22 AM 4/24/03 , you wrote:
>  > >Dear Phil,
>  > >
>  > >I appreciated your (below) remarks, and think you are right on about
> the 
>  > >nature of the (real world) issue(s). From my own experience and in my 
>  > >discussions with colleagues (pianists all). Some observations & 
>  > >suppositions include:
>  > >
>  > >1.) Pianists may prefer more inertia/ heavier actions because, even
if 
>  > >less inertia/lighter might be personal preference, most pianos
> performed 
>  > >on in the field (concert hall or other) would not match the pianists 
>  > >personal preference so... better to be able to perform on the 
>  > >stiffest/heaviest of actions (because an audience has no idea how good
> or 
>  >
>  > >bad (responsive) the action is). They often assume the performance is 
>  > >entirely about the pianist (with the possible exception of an out of
> tune 
>  >
>  > >piano) in much the same way that they often assume an out of tune
piano
>  > is 
>  > >entirely about the tuner.
>  > >2.) Well practiced pianists tend to develop chops & can cope with
> greater 
>  >
>  > >inertia (they can do the heavy lifting)
>  >
>  >          I was aware that many pianists take this approach of working
on
> a heavy action so that they can build up trength and stamina to deal with
> heavy actions when they encounter them.  One of the unfortunate
> consequences of thisfor some pianists is physical damage.  Another
> unfortunate consequence is that some teachers take this as some sort of
> mantra and tell their students to buy a piano with a heavy action so that
> they can 'develop their strength', even if these students have no desire
or
> ability to be professional pianists, and the result is a piano that's a
> chore to play.  Also, the upper limit of what defines a heavy action may
be 
> > > determined by a piano action that is poorly set up, so that the
pianist
> is building himself up more than he would need to if he got to play on
> actions that were well designed or set up.  I'm reminded of a pianist (a
> young woman) I saw recently on TV playing the Rachmaninoff 3rd piano
> concerto, which she had presumably been practicing a lot.  She had arms
> like a blacksmith's.
> > >          Also, my experience as an amateur pianist is that the best
> situation for me when playing on different pianos is for the piano to be
> similar to my personal piano.  I have trouble if the action is a lot
> heavier because my muscles are not built up to deal with it.  But, I also
> have problems controlling the action if it's a lot lighter.  If a
> professional constantly practices on a heavy action doesn't he have some
> control problems when he encounters a very light or fleet action?
>  >
>  >
>  > >These things aside,  I like choices and I don't mind change IF it
>  > produces 
>  > >a great enough return. So there is a difference between the market
for 
>  > >'performing' pianists (performers at multiple venues), and the market
> for 
>  >
>  > >pianists who almost exclusively perform on their own instrument.
>  > >
>  > >What is difficult to manage is having the action change 
>  > >significantly/unpredictibly with every piano/venue.
>  > >
>  > >Maybe we (pianists) don't have much choice. I'm wondering if having
> more 
>  > >choices would just create another whole set of issues, but I think
more 
>  > >choices has the potential to educate, AND EDUCATION IS KEY !!!!
>  > >
>  > >Best, Rich Olmsted
>  >
>  >
>  > Good points.  The sort of range of choices that I was talking about
> really only make sense for pianists' personal nstruments or for those very
> few artists that get to travel with an instrument.  It would be
interesting
> to see what pianists would end up choosing for themselves if they were
> given some options.  Performing pianists of necessity desire uniformity
> from instrument to instrument, since they are required to play on so many
> different instruments.  I suppose their ideal would be a sort of
'standard' 
> > > action that would be the same from piano to piano.  But what should
> this standard action be like?  The technical community is gaining the
> knowledge to set actions up to give desired results rather than take
> whatever results from putting a bunch of action parts together.  Perhaps
> it's time to start talking about a standard action setup, just as we have
a
> standard pitch.  Performing artists would then not have surprises when
they
> showed 
> > > up to play on yet another instrument unknown to them.
> > >
> > > Regards,
> > >
> > > Phil Ford
> > >
> > > >Phil Ford wrote:
> > > >I think this shows that different pianists have different ideas about
> how 
> > >
> > > >pianos ought to feel.  I think we have been lead to believe that
there
> is 
> > >
> > > >an ideal setup and we just have to find it.  I wonder if we shouldn't
> be 
> > > >working towards having the ability to vary the feel of the actions
more
> > > in 
> > > >a quantifiable way to give pianists more choice. Some might like
> heavier, 
> > >
> > > >some lighter.  Some more inertia, some less. Some evenness from one
end
> > > >to the other, others a graduation from one end to the other, etc.
Now,
> to 
> > >
> > > >the extent that we give them any choice at all, it seems to be - you
> can 
> > > >have this balance weight or that one.  Sort of like saying, what
> flavor 
> > > >would you like, vanilla or french vanilla.  I also wonder if having
> some 
> > > >of these options might change their tastes somewhat.  I sometimes
hear 
> > > >technicians say that pianists like 10 mm keydip, heavy actions, lots
> of 
> > > >inertia,
> > > >etc.  Not surprising, since that's what most of them play on all the 
> > > >time.  They don't have much choice.  And most of them don't like 
> > > >change.  But if they were given a chance to live with some other
> setups I 
> > >
> > > >wonder if they wouldn't end up preferring them.  (I suppose this is a
> bit 
> > >
> > > >like the temperament discussions).
> > >
> > > > 
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > pianotech list info: https://www.moypiano.com/resources/#archives
>
>
>
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