tuning narrow and wide

[David Andersen]

on 6/18/03 6:28 AM, Ron Koval at drwoodwind@hotmail.com wrote:

> Tony wrote:
> 
> <snip>
> Both narrow and wide measurements vary only below note 15 "B" and above =
> note 64 "C".
I'm sorry, I'm coming in on the middle; what measurements?
 
>> From this one would assume that the narrowing and widening of a piano =
> should only happen above and below those notes.
> <snip>
I don't agree with this at all; in my world, everything is stretched.
> Yes, that is one way to do it, though I think the way to a more blended or
> organic sounding tuning also involves the width of the temperament octave.
> Think about it, we use that octave as the foundation to work to both ends of
> the keyboard, so small changes here are multiplied by the inharmonicity
> effect as we compare back and forth.
Yes.

I guess I'll float this out here again.  For me, the slowly rolling beats of
the fourths and the barely rolling beats of the fifths are much easier to
hear accurately than thirds/sixths/tenths/seventeenths; they take you to the
same place in ET, and the fourths and fifths are much more precise.
The piano will tell you the speed the fourths should beat, but it's between
.5 and 1.2 bps.  ALL THE FOURTHS ON THE PIANO SHOULD BEAT AT THE SAME SPEED.
The fifths should barely beat, should be juuust flat---maybe 1 long, sloowww
beat every 3 seconds.

If you're patient, and can wait for the garbage to clear away, you can
listen to fourths all the way down to note #1, and all the way up to the
top, although I rely on octaves(sgl./dbl./trpl./quadrpl.) above note 64 or
so, checking the odd 11th and 18th here and there if I think I'm being
fooled by an octave.

The point is this:  the more precise you are, and I mean incredibly precise,
with the temperament, the more precise and musical the entire tuning will
be. I don't use a muting strip any more; I find my tunings SO much more
solid and precise using just  a single mute; it's like a mini- pitch raise
on every note, and you know that note's going to stay exactly where you put
it.  And, you're challenged to get the unisons perfect.  No wonder every
single great concert prep wizard until relatively recently used the same
"old school" system; it's rock solid, and I can do it on most good grands in
75 minutes.

That's one beautiful outcome of machines: if it's a good one, it'll put the
first string tuned very, very close to where the finest aural tuners would
put it, and then you lock the other two strings to it.  If the whole unison
goes slightly narrow or wide in the process, no problem, you just shim it up
or down slightly, and BOOM! it stays where you put it.

I'd be happy to talk further with anyone about my tuning protocol.......

Just $.02 from a rock and rolling tone pig.......

My best to all.

David Andersen
Malibu, CA