machines or not? what?

[Isaac OLEG]

Tony,

You said it, it is more an ear backup for me , but I am always amazed
when I use it in pitch raising (the first time when a second visit is
planned after a few weeks/days) how good is yet the tuning, even if in
that case I mostly tune without checks.

What this goodie can do that is not really easy otherwise, is take in
account the spectra of the whole scale while computing a tuning. Then
the compromizing is the best, the solution given is never to be
tweaked much, sometime changing the strech is necessary but I stopped
modifying the temperament to match the break, as I did before. It is
in fact unnecessary.

The tweaking in fact is done in the unisson's tweak range, I guess it
is enough accuracy for us.

As the VT is allowing you to compute, say a "pur" 12th or a pure
fifths tuning, the choice is up to the user, Ron came to a use of the
tool based on a partial's match weight choice, that use the ability of
the machine to deal with interval types.

As Andre said using the tool even refine your ears.

I believe that what aural tuners can't get when it comes to machine is
the way the machine can match their "right" thing.

It can't totally really, what we feel right when tuning is a good
utilisation of the strings energy, and I believe we tend to hear also
the good settling of the pin, so we don't see how a machine can do
that. The Vt have its display driven more by the proeminent partials
so it lecture is natural to us, but we still have to manage the energy
given by the octaves, unissons, and the color that we give the other
intervals.

One of the amazing things the tuner can do is give that full round
basses that match very well the middle part of the instrument, and
then ring longer with the help of the whole piano when the sustain
pedal is engaged.
ANother one is a perfetc progression of thirds tenths 17ths right on
the money in the medium.

The tool is so very true that only the agreable part of the job
remains (building tone, tweaking there and there to obtain that little
"plus" we like to hear if we want to.

I don't sell them actually, nor I believe Andre was intending to
market it. As a tuner I hope I will hear and find enough pleasure in
the job till I retire, and I am persuaded these machines can help in
that matter (I've hear too much tunings of bored tuners, I understand
well what it gives with time)

The drawback is, the tunings are so consistent the instruments stay a
long time before you can't play them anymore, so you will keep only
the customers that don't answer you 'oh the piano is not really out of
tune' when you call next year, or you market your sevices as a full
technician an not only a tuner.

I was able this year (because of momentary budget problems) to keep
"in tune" the 28 pianos of a little school in Paris, with only 2
tunings (if you knew the conditions you may understood why it is
amazing).

Hope it does ot sound too much biased <G>

Best regards


Isaac OLEG

Entretien et réparation de pianos.

PianoTech
17 rue de Choisy
94400 VITRY sur SEINE
FRANCE
tel : 033 01 47 18 06 98
fax : 033 01 47 18 06 90
cell: 06 60 42 58 77

> -----Message d'origine-----
> De : pianotech-bounces@ptg.org
> [mailto:pianotech-bounces@ptg.org]De la
> part de Tony Caught
> Envoyé : samedi 21 juin 2003 09:25
> À : Pianotech
> Objet : Re: machines or not? what?
>
>
> Hi André
>
> Don't blame Alan for those comments, they are mine. I am at
> the moment
> trying to understand why so many people who use these
> machines recon that
> they are so good. To tune a piano from A0 to C8 by machine
> and say its tuned
> is to me just unbelievable. Who is kidding who ?
> So OK, Verituner is one that I have no experience with and
> from what has
> been said by you and others has led me to believe that it
> is not a machine,
> its a visual extension of your ear.
> My lease is due to expire on my computer and because of
> that I have to
> decide wether I want to buy a Verituner and do my bookwork
> manually or still
> tune by ear with an assist from the machine to help relieve
> the stress.
>
> Look After,
>
> Tony
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <antares@euronet.nl>
> To: "Pianotech" <pianotech@ptg.org>
> Sent: Saturday, June 21, 2003 6:18 AM
> Subject: machines or not? what?
>
>
> >
> > On vrijdag, jun 20, 2003, at 21:49 Europe/Amsterdam, Alan
> Forsyth wrote:
> >
> > >>>> " But this is still all based on the original scale
> that is set and
> > >>>> that
> > > is the way it should be.  ...To deviate from this
> standard (variations
> > > accepted) is not in my opinion a good practice. To
> allow a machine to
> > > say "
> > > Hey my C1 inharmonicity is way, way, out, so you have
> to tune the
> > > piano with
> > > a scale that will accept me and to hell with every
> other note." is not
> > > good.......So I guess that the correct way to tune a
> piano is still by
> > > ear.
> > > ...........">>>
> > >
> >
> >
> > I am sorry Alan Forsyth,
> > but I do not agree with you.
> > I have tuned an awful lot of piano's by ear and I have
> spoken here many
> > times about my aural tuning experience.
> > At the same time I have become an advocate for the most
> perfect tuning
> > machine: the Verituner
> >
> > This machine gives us the most perfect tuning possible
> with the least
> > amount of trouble. i.e. no computer stuff, no choosing of
> partials, no
> > anything.
> > You just choose your pitch and that's just it. A perfect
> box and at the
> > same time perfectly simple to handle too.
> > So far, every buyer that I know of went crazy after the very first
> > tuning : they can't believe it! they have never heard such a
> > fantastic tuning before in their whole life...every buyer!
> >
> > So think about that! you want to tune by ear? what's against that?
> > nothing. but to say "So I guess that the correct way to
> tune a piano is
> > still by ear' like you just said ?
> > That is today not necessary anymore. We are now living in
> 2003 and the
> > Verituner has been around for a number of years. leaving
> behind an army
> > of extremely happy tuners.
> > With all my respect for aural tuning and for you. (the
> other day my
> > battery was low and I had to tune aurally, the old
> fashioned way....I
> > grumbled but of course did the job and it was easier than
> ever before!
> > Using the Verituner has even improved my hearing)
> >
> > Antares,
> > The Netherlands
> >
> > see my web site : www.concertpianoservice.nl
> > and : www.grandpiano.nl
> >
> > _______________________________________________
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>
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