what's with the new temperaments?

[Richard Moody]

----- Original Message -----
From: Ron Koval <drwoodwind@hotmail.com>
To: <pianotech@ptg.org>
Sent: Monday, March 10, 2003 1:22 PM
Subject: what's with the new temperaments?
..................................................................
...................

> Yes they the tunings then were not as fine or close as today,
but
> that is not the point.  If you are truly interested in how ET
was
> tuned in  the 19th century you might be interested in the
research
> of Ellis, and the writings of Montal.  ---rm

..................................................................
.....
> Hmmmm, didn't we just say the same thing?  I thought that the
tunings >of the  past might be seriously flawed if they weren't
repeatable, and you agree that they were not as fine or close as
today....... so how could the implentation of the tuning on the
piano not be flawed?

This discussion might seem like splitting hairs, but since fine
tuning is an issue of just that, how bout this analogy.   You get
a grade of B in music class. (music theory 102).  Your mother says
you should have gotten an  A.   Does that mean something or
someone is flawed?
      That tunings 150 years ago were probably not be as fine or
consistent as today, does that means the implementation was
flawed?  I say the tunings of ET today rate an A, and the attempts
at ET in the 1800's probably would-could-should rate a B.  (With
the exception of Montal, he gets an A, OK, A- but of course I am
biased except that I can produce  an  A minus ET with Montal's
method----most of the time....).

We might have to set definitions. Implementation, roughly means
how it was done.  How tuning was done in 1845, or 1870 can be
ascertained if one researches the historic record of the tuning
instructions written at that time.
    Ellis gives the methods (of how the tunings were implemented)
used by Broadwood and Sons those used by Moore and Moore.   The
two pattern are different yet they both strived for ET.  Ellis
measured the results and presented them in a table titled,
"Specimens of Tuning in Equal Temperament".
     What Ellis gives for Broadwood ca1870 as far as the procedure
for implementation, is a little different from what James
Broadwood himself gave in 1811.  Big deal?  To me it is
interesting.    He (JB) gave a pattern, a step by step sequence.
If that didn't work, for amateurs, he also  suggested parallel
tuning from 12 tuning forks, (in 1811 !!) the modern equilivant of
advocating tuning from an ETD.  There will be arguments on this
but I will address them as they come.

>
> As to whether I'm interested in 19th century ET.... No, and I'm
not
> interested in ET tuned with 12 tuning forks, or ET tuned with
the first
> strobotuner, or ET with the first Korg, or monochord ETs,
or........
>For that, I believe a
> thoughtful, purposeful deviation from ET can be a  helpful
journey.
>
> Ron Koval

Yes, I would be interested in that.   Lets hear a thoughtful
deviation from ET and  compare it to ET.    ===rm