>
> Greetings,
> I have been interested in the influence of Claude Montal.
If I remember
> correctly, his booklet "How to tune your own piano" was
discovered, by > accident, in a pile of manuscripts in the 1970's.
It had languished in near total obscurity for 140 years, but upon
coming to light was taken as proof of some sort. This makes me
wonder just how influential it was.
I would be interesting where you got your memory from. It would
be interesting to hear what Minkoff the publishers of the 1976
reprint (of Montal) have to say.
And yes, "just how influential it was" would be the next step in
a
very interesting research.
It is dedicated to Pleyel. Could Montal have done that without
Pleyel's permission?. He claims to have tuned for major venues
and "professors" and performers.
Could one of them have been Chopin?
If it was Chopin, why didn't Montal say so? Surely if Chopin
liked his tuning he would have allowed Montal's name to be used
especially since Montal supported the public blind institute
because Montal was blind.
We know Chopin had to have encountered piano tuners. If tuning
was so important I can't believe Chopin had nothing to say about
tuners, or the "method" of tuning. Maybe he did but biographers
thought it uninteresting to the average reader. But maybe Chopin
did not care that much about piano tuning. If so, then why should
we? If it is a big deal how Chopin's piano was tuned and how
that may have affected the way he composed and how he wanted his
music to be heard there needs to be a lot more dug up as far as
the historical record is concerned.
You may be correct to say it (Montal's book) languished in
obscurity as far as English speaking are concerned, but what about
the French?. Did it ever go through reprints? Is it possible
Montal tuned for Chopin? If not who did in France?. There are
indications Hipkins claimed to have tuned for Chopin in England
and Hipkins also claims to have re-introduced ET to the Broadwood
firm.
>
> Tuners simply don't change their tuning philosophy(much less
their work
> habits) very fast. This is true today, and I think, even more
so in an
> earlier time in which communication and education were so
limited. Imagine
> the working tuner of 1830, practicing what was an arcane art of
harmonic
> decisions. Was he going to put aside all that instinctive and
traditional
> skill he had learned to begin a new system of measurement that
would detune
> all intervals?
You have a good imagination but how is this related to how tuners
of 1830 actually tuned? How do you know that the tuner of 1830
practiced the arcane art of harmonic decisions whatever that is?
And what is so hard about learning a new system of tuning? Isn't
that what you are advocating modern tuners to do, "put aside a
well learned traditional skill" in order attempt some tuning
scheme that may or may not have been one that a 20th century
writer imagined that Beethoven might have- could have- perhaps
was- inspired by?
Montal gives pretty good indication as to what was tuned
before 1830 at least in France. What he has to say about
Werckmeister and other German theorists you might be interested
to read if it ever gets translated. "disastrous results as far as
harmonie is concerned" is a pleminary translation by my dictionary
word by word attempt. I am willing to bet a 90 dollar tuning I am
not that far off.
> Hipkins, in his position as an industry leader and instructor
> may have [tuned ET], but the rank and file tuners could be
expected to continue >their craft as taught. The 'hand-me-down'
nature of instruction by >individuals doesn't lend itself to
rapid changes and adoption of avante->garde ideas.
And what was this "rank and file tuning according to hand me
down instruction"? Meantone?
Wow, Why do you think modern tuners who were trained by hand
me down instruction are hard to persuade that what they learned,
ET, should suddenly be substituted for some arcane tuning scheme
from the past which no one really knows was even widely tuned then
and which for some reason has not been handed down.........now
should suddenly be tuned? Consider how it is proposed to be
tuned-------by machine. I think you are 300 years too soon. The
aural tradition will not die out that fast.
I am not saying that the musical world should be dominated by
ET as far as piano tuning is concerned. That is should be freedom
of choice. You are free to choose whatever tuning you desire, and
find the tuner who can render it.
In the fervor to explore "historical tunings" a significant
aspect has been forgotten about the nature of piano tuning. And
that is aural tuners were taught the system and methods of their
teachers who were taught by their teachers who were taught their
teachers and so on back into time. ET is a historical tuning.
It was the main one. I learned in the 70's in America from my
teacher who learned in the 30's in Germany, who proclaimed the
best temperament he heard (in America) was by Vladimer Palm who
had tuned for the Czars before the Revolution. My teacher had been
invited to study with the tuner of Paderweski in Hamburg, but he
had to leave because of the Nazis.
Some of us in this "hand me down" tradition count our lucky
stars for what has come down and are proud to maintain what we
learned and hope to pass it on. I say, you are free to pass on
your heritage.
> It seems that if Montal's procedures had been taken up by
the tuners of the era, we would have heard him hailed as the hero
of the musical world,for finally solving the puzzle.
What puzzle? Mersenne published the answer to that in 16
something.
Do you mean,, "how can you tell how much to flatten the 5ths"?
That is part of the historic record from the 15th century to the
present.
>Wouldn't his name would have entered the
> literature of the musical trade as surely as Columbus's did in
history.
Really. who was Columbus's navigator? Who was Beethoven's tuner
or Chopin's tuner?
This is an enigma of history, why certain names (of supporting
cast) are forgotten.
> So, I believe it is fallacy to think that his
> temperament was widely used or accepted at the time of his
publishing >
> Ed Foote RPT
What temperament was used then??
If not ET then what was used? If indeed Montal's method of ET
was not used or accepted, that would be of historical interest,
because his writings show a modern understanding of ET and also a
method of achieving modern ET. Modern ET then could have should
have been available to Chopin. It would be interesting to find
out if Chopin did actually hear ET through Pleyel in France early
on, or not until Hipkins in England in 1848(?) ---rm
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