Ric, I guess you mean "oho's!not aha's ! Wayne, As I see different kind of tuners tuning slighly different kind of unissons - that I 'd like to try to compare - the words for that miss me at the moment, but I believe it is a trade off between the immediateness of the projection , the brillance, the live quality of the tone the importance of the fondamental vs the higher partials, and how it sustain. (Tell about that to many tuners you'll have them ROLFL) and that tuning unissons "building tone" is to be done fast and securely,I still believe that the eare understand better than the eyes what is going on in an unisson. It is the phase we are after, after all, no doubt some circuitry is able to check that - still I believe the delay time we have between what we see and what we hear is in favour of the ear by ten times (I've read that somewhere). Mind processing is faster for ear than eyes and may be touch (?) I believe it can be dangerous in fact to work on tuning unissons with a display, as it can lend to straight tone (not only straight edged, but basically straight), when ear and taste training allows for more simplicity and an easier approach. A too closed uninssion can tone like in a barrel, we may allow the tone to escape from the piano, and that is clearly the impression it gives on some little spot. As we can yet count on the accuracy for justness of (some of !) the modern EDT, it is a good opportunity to work directly on the part that finally makes the big differnece between tuners, and developp its own tone. BTW, I've been said that the German people talk about the "voyel" when they speak of voicing and /or unissons, a good demonstration have been given once by one of our repected tuners, that let me listen how it change from the tone "ih", to "eh", then "ah", then "Oh" ! Being able to produce a good precise tone with the playing hand is the first lesson, learning how to not listen to the immediate tone is another, while the phasing can be pretty immediate also if one likes it. Fun is also that phasing occur as well if beats are present, like in honky tonk piano tuning , it can be easier to hear it then, as we are less disturbed by the natural extinction of the note. Having someone showing you some basics is very efficient indeed - Friendly wishes to Dale, I hope it will work OK for you. Remember the tone we regulate is not that long, playing 3 or 4 time/second a note in the medium range (faster in the treble) gives a clue for what we have to regulate, assuming the voicing is not too straight on the piano (heavily laquered hammers are not very helpful in that matter ) I hope that can help Greetings ------------------------------------ Isaac OLEG accordeur - reparateur - concert oleg-i@noos.fr 19 rue Jules Ferry 94400 VITRY sur SEINE tel: 033 01 47 18 06 98 fax: 33 01 47 18 06 90 mobile: 033 06 60 42 58 77 ------------------------------------ > -----Message d'origine----- > De : pianotech-bounces@ptg.org > [mailto:pianotech-bounces@ptg.org]De la > part de Richard Brekne > Envoye : samedi 8 novembre 2003 03:16 > A : Pianotech > Objet : Re: Accu-Tuner ad > > > > > Ron Nossaman wrote: > > > I don't see how it's possible to tune > > good unisons visually, at least with the existing > processing and displays. > > > > Ron N > > > > > > Sure it is... its just too time consuming to be productive. > And thats largely > because we only can view one partial at a time. Verituners > conglomerate > perspective might just confuse it, depending on how exactly > its programmed. > But what we hear is no more then the mesh of individual > coincidents, along > with whatever anomolies incurred in each single string. You > go back and forth > enough times with a single partial display, and get enough > experience under > your belt in solving that problem this way... and you can > get as good a unison > as is possible... ofte times better then the ear / mind > resolves too. I do > this quite frequently on base unisons that have a wild > single. A multi partial > display would allow you to reference one string with all > its useable partials, > and then compare its mate to the reference. A bit of > practice and you would be > able to see clearly developing patterns as to what sounds > best visa vi what > you are looking at. Much in the same sense that Jim Coleman > speaks of needing > to get a feel for how far into the sustain of a note you > need to go if you are > useing an ETD to listen. That varies from register to > register, and really on > the kind of attack and decay pattern you see unveil itself. > > I am convinced the next generation of ETD's will move in > this direction, and I > am also convinced it will open a lot of those "aha" doors > in a lot of tuners > minds. > > Cheers > RicB > > > -- > Richard Brekne > RPT, N.P.T.F. > UiB, Bergen, Norway > mailto:rbrekne@broadpark.no > http://home.broadpark.no/~rbrekne/ricmain.html > http://www.hf.uib.no/grieg/personer/cv_RB.html > > > _______________________________________________ > pianotech list info: https://www.moypiano.com/resources/#archives
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