Was OnlyPure not P12ths Tunings

[Bernhard Stopper]

Ric,

If you tune the fifths and the octaves one after the other, this is ok.
If you tune the third note from any of the three note combinations together 
with the other two, and measure explicitely for pureness, that relates to 
one method of my patent filing for using in an ETD.
If you have done so already before my patent filing and you have not 
published before, thats your risk. It is still possible to get patented a 
thing, someone other used before and did not talk about.

But i have never read about anything from your post here, that you ever used 
those 3 note combinations tuning/calcuating/measuring that way, that when 
played together it should reach a pure state.

Me seems that this is not the first time, you wrote that you do something 
like i do after i posted it to this list.

Please remember:
When we began discussing P12 here last year, you talked about that you tune 
a perfect twelfth with measuring the third partial of the lower note of a 
perfect twelfth note with the ETD and tune it to the first partial of the 
upper note of the pure twelfth. The you tune a smaller than pure fifth, and 
do a "scott´s quadratic interpolation"

After popping into this discussion, i  wrote how i tune the perfect twelves 
aurally with the help of a major sixth and a double octave+Mthird.

Some weeks later, you posted, "i usually tune the pure twelfth aurally using 
a major sicth and a double octave+MSixth"

be it like it be,
if you think my approach is not new, feel free to raise objection at the 
patent process.

regards,

Bernhard


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Ric Brekne" <ricbrek@broadpark.no>
To: "pianotech" <pianotech@ptg.org>
Sent: Friday, April 15, 2005 8:11 PM
Subject: Was OnlyPure not P12ths Tunings


> Hi Ron K and Bernie :)
>
> Consider this and see if this makes sense to you.
>
> Take the 4 notes D3,A3,D4,and A4.
>
> You have a a 12th in D3 and A4.  Tune that so the lowest order partial 
> sets is pure to begin with.
> Then there are 4 three note combinations here.  D3,A3,D4 / D3,A3,A4 / 
> D3,D4,A4 / and A3, D4, A4.
>
> The trick is simply to get all 4 of these into as beatless a condition as 
> possible from within a pure 12th D3-A4 framework. Yes ?
>
> Essentially, this is what I've been doing for the past 4-5 years. After 
> setting the 12th I tune A3 to A4 as a slightly  narrow 6:3 octave type so 
> that the D3-A3 5th  3:2 fifth type is acceptable. Usually turns out to 
> about a 3rd of a beat per second. Bernhards <<quasi pure sound>>  Then I 
> tune D4 tune to D3 as a pure 6:3 octave type, as much pure as the D4-A3 
> 4th and the D4 D4 5th allows for.  Compromising D4 for all three 
> relationships yeilds a slower then (ET) normal 4th, and a very quite 5th 
> and an octave that balances 4:2 and 6:3 so that a sense of pureness is 
> there.
>
> When I construct a curve using Tunelab 97 with these 4 anchours.. I simply 
> enter the 3rd partial frequencies for all four notes into the numerical 
> editor, and use the quadratic interpolator to construct a curve for first 
> D3,A3,D4, and then A3,D4, A4.  I then have a <<12ths temperament>> for the 
> entire range. This is easily extended to the treble just by tuning E6 to 
> the 3rd partial value for A4 and F5 to the 3rd partial value for D4 and 
> then redoing the process with the numerical editor for this extended 
> range.
> I find for the bass its best to balance octave types instead of extending 
> the 12th downwards.  I /think /this is because the inharmonicity and para 
> inharmonicity down there is better handled that way.
>
> Now.. this is a method if you will... that just about anyone could stumble 
> upon... and I fail to see how in itself this kind of methodology is 
> patentable... let alone enforceable once a patent is somehow managed.  If 
> applied in a particular ETD algorithm in a particular fashion I can see 
> it... but in itself ... ?? nah...
>
> Cheers
> RicB
>
>
>
>
> Bernhard writes:
>
> No, it should be pure for all of this 4 three-note combinations, the pure 
> state is only limited by inharmonicity.
> On a concert grand, you can easily reach a "quasi" pure sound of every 
> octave with a inner and or outer fifth.
>
>
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