Bernhard, Any portion of your method that has been done and published before will make it invalid...imho David I. ----- Original message ---------------------------------------- From: Bernhard Stopper <b98tu@t-online.de> To: Pianotech <pianotech@ptg.org> Received: Mon, 18 Apr 2005 17:32:56 +0100 Subject: Re: Patents and Professionalism >A tuning can not be patented but a method can >regards, >Bernhard >----- Original Message ----- >From: "David Love" <davidlovepianos@comcast.net> >To: "'Pianotech'" <pianotech@ptg.org> >Sent: Monday, April 18, 2005 2:55 PM >Subject: RE: Patents and Professionalism >> If the P12 tuning is not new and is therefore in the public domain, you >> cannot patent it, or it would be useless to. >> >> David Love >> davidlovepianos@comcast.net >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: pianotech-bounces@ptg.org [mailto:pianotech-bounces@ptg.org] On >> Behalf Of Bernhard Stopper >> Sent: Sunday, April 17, 2005 10:47 PM >> To: Pianotech >> Subject: Re: Patents and Professionalism >> >> Ric, >> >> I do not patent the P12 tuning with this patent filing. >> I do patent a new method that reach a state of the P12 tuning that >> cannot >> be reached by any other previous method.(i.e. the elimination of the >> beats >> of octaves and fifths, when played together in chords,due to the >> symmetry of >> beats that occurs only in the P12 tuning). This elimination possibility >> was >> not recognized until now, and is use it explicitely in the new method to >> >> build the temperament completely by 3-note chords, of octave and inner >> lower >> fifth and octave and inner upper fifth, played at the same time. And >> this is >> a new method. And therefore patentable. >> >> You can repeat as often as you want that the P12 tuning concept is not >> new. >> This is not the point. >> >> best regards, >> >> Bernhard >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Ric Brekne" <ricbrek@broadpark.no> >> To: "pianotech" <pianotech@ptg.org> >> Sent: Sunday, April 17, 2005 9:44 PM >> Subject: Patents and Professionalism >> >> >>> Hi Mike. >>> >>> While this is hardly Einstein I agree with you in principle. However >> my >>> own view here has little to do with ethics and most to do with >>> practicalities. By all means let Bernhard use good money, time and >> effort >>> to attempt, and perhaps succeed in patenting his tuning method. I >> should >>> like to point out however that the likelyhood of it surviving the >> first >>> challange it meets in practice seems quite small to me. This is based >> on >>> the following facts. >>> >>> 1. The general concept of a P12ths tuning and the idea of basing a >>> temperament on the 19th root of 3 is at this point rather old news >>> 2. A somewhat more refined method of tuning this P 12ths tuning has >> been >>> disscussed now, distributed for Tune Lab and used for at least 4 years >> and >>> was not origioned by Stopper. >>> 3. The general method of listening for a <<beatless>> condition for >> more >>> then one interval at once is very old news. Its very much at the >> heart of >>> Virgil Smiths approach, Bill Bremmers tempered octaves, and probably a >> >>> whole batch of folks dating way back. >>> 4. This exact idea of <<beatless>> as described is not something one >> can >>> precisely define from an aural standpoint. It certainly will come in >>> conflict on more then seldom occasion with variances in the subjective >> >>> judgment of different ears, and these again in conflict with >> objective >>> measurement via an EDT as described. >>> >>> In essence this all means that far to much of the aural methods for >> what >>> Stopper claims as his is prior knowledge and no patents court in the >> world >>> will look past that should a case ever come up. Added to the fact that >> the >>> patent comes a full 4 years after an all too similar method clearly >>> developed completely independant and without knowledge of his own and >>> archieved on this list.. namely the so called Brekne P 12ths tuning. >> It >>> does no good to point out that a mathematical justification for the >> basic >>> approach existed long prior to my own system as I am not trying to >> patent >>> anything, and Stopper has made no move towards patenting until now. >> Added >>> to all this the fact that there has been virtually no interest >> developed >>> anywhere for the p 12ths concept at large except by myself and other >>> enthusiasts on this list and that Stopper has become aware of this >> fact, >>> all well before he attempts to patent... well... it all boils down to >> >>> Johnny come lately. And all this from a strictly practical (legal) >>> perspective. Going through the patent process is just a waste of >> money >>> IMHO. >>> >>> On top of all this comes the disscussion that has been tossed about on >> >>> this list the last couple days. It seems pretty clear to me how >> likely it >>> is any tuner will pay royalties for any aural method. >>> >>> As an ETD algorithm and employed in an EDT... he's got a reasonable >>> product to sell. But then one just has too look at the ongoing dispute >> >>> between Sanderson and Reyburn to understand how shaky even a >> reasonably >>> solid patent really is. >>> >>> Nope... I admire the will to research and the thirst for learning. >> And I >>> am the first to play by the rules as best I can. But there is just no >> way >>> on earth anyone can enforce a patent on an aural tuning method. I >> mean... >>> hey guys... we are on planet earth arent we ?? All meant in the best >> of >>> humour and respect... >>> >>> Cheers >>> RicB >>> >>> >>> Michael writes: >>> >>> Hello List >>> There's been a lot of acrimony lately in the List regarding what >>> constitutes a "patentable" item. I like to hope that, like other >>> professions, the Tuning Fraternity like to help each other to the >>> benefit of that profession and the general public as a whole. Did >>> Einstein patent his theories on relativity? I know he was awarded the >> >>> Nobel Prize in 1921. I think we are in danger of barking up the wrong >> >>> tree altogether. >>> Regards >>> Michael G.(UK) >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> pianotech list info: https://www.moypiano.com/resources/#archives >> >> _______________________________________________ >> pianotech list info: https://www.moypiano.com/resources/#archives >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> pianotech list info: https://www.moypiano.com/resources/#archives >_______________________________________________ >pianotech list info: https://www.moypiano.com/resources/#archives
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