Killer Octave & Pitch Raise

[Michael Gamble]

Hello David and List
Rogers' "thwacking" the bridge as he progresses puts me in mind of a 
frightful thing which happened to me many years ago as I and an assistant 
wheeled in a Yamaha G1 into the Pit (on its spine) - it overbalanced and 
fell on its top.....!"£$%^! - When we had recovered from the cacaphonic din 
and horrid feelings one gets in such accidents, we picked it up, put it on 
its legs and I tuned it back to pitch. It had gone way flat - BUT (and 
here's the interesting point I wish to make) once there that Yamaha was the 
most stable of instruments. SO.... the moral of this story is .... If it 
doesn't stay in tune, kick it!
Hi Roger - I used your mean steaming hammer machine trick. Great!
Now I'm off line for a week of Holiday.... I shall wave to Andre in Holland 
from my Norfolk cliff-top retreat...
Regards from Darkest Sussex -
Michael G (UK)
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "David Ilvedson" <ilvey@sbcglobal.net>
To: <pianotech@ptg.org>
Sent: Saturday, February 12, 2005 7:39 PM
Subject: Re: Killer Octave & Pitch Raise


>I will mention an interesting tip I got from yesterday's class with Roger 
>Jolly.   It was a voicing class but he made an aside that when restringing 
>he uses a padded piece of wood to smack the bridge as he progressed, from 
>the front side to possibly help counter bridge roll?   He didn't know if it 
>did a thing for sure but that's what he did...
>
> David I.
>
>
>
> ----- Original message ----------------------------------------
> From: Michael Gamble <michael@gambles.fsnet.co.uk>
> To: Richard Brekne <Richard.Brekne@grieg.uib.no>
> Received: Sat, 12 Feb 2005 15:50:50 -0000
> Subject: Re: Killer Octave & Pitch Raise
>
>
>>Hello Ric
>>Interesting post - and one which affects all who undertake the restringing
>>of pianos. In order to comply with the best proceedures with relation to
>>bringing a piano down to remove the old strings - and, more importantly??,
>>bringing the piano back to A=440 what, in the interests of your post, do 
>>you
>>believe to be the best course of attack? Please take it step-by-step if 
>>you
>>would be so kindly! So you're face with restringing an S&S model 
>>D........go
>>from there!
>>Regards
>>Michael G (UK)
>>----- Original Message ----- 
>>From: "Richard Brekne" <Richard.Brekne@grieg.uib.no>
>>To: "Newtonburg" <pianotech@ptg.org>
>>Sent: Saturday, February 12, 2005 12:54 AM
>>Subject: re: Killer Octave & Pitch Raise
>
>
>>> Udo Steingræber and I got into a conversation about this in Helsinki a
>>> couple years back on the only opportunity I've had to sit and chat with
>>> him.  It was part of a discussion where he was explaining why he felt
>>> compression soundboards were the way to go.  He mentioned something 
>>> about
>>> the so called K point (I think this is a Klaus Fenner coined term), 
>>> which
>>> as I understood it was that point on the soundboard where crown from 
>>> both
>>> along the grain and cross the grain intersect and is at its highest 
>>> point.
>>> This area is exactly (and always) in the area typically refered to by
>>> american techs as the <<killer octave>> area, and of course varies
>>> somewhat from piano to piano.  It is then  also the exact point then 
>>> that
>>> is most vunerable to failures.  Udo was of the position that along the
>>> grain crowning was every bit as important as cross grain crown. 
>>> Something
>>> to do with along the grain compression due to downbearing having a
>>> stablizing effect on cross grain crown and strength.  He also meant that
>>> both these were needed to produce the kind of acoustical results he 
>>> wanted
>>> from a soundboard.
>>> I'm under the impression, correct me if I am wrong, that most of the rib
>>> crowned methods extoled on this list do not employ any purposefull along
>>> the grain crowning as part of how the panels are attached to the rim, 
>>> and
>>> therefor do not have this vunerablity.  It would stand to reason that 
>>> they
>>> too are not able to create the same acoustical  results.... (whether 
>>> that
>>> is preferable or not is an entirely different subject).
>>>
>>> Disclaimer.  This description is my understanding of what Udo was 
>>> saying,
>>> tho I beleive it is pretty accurate. Not being a soundboard engineer 
>>> tho,
>>> I'll leave it to more experienced to explain, interpret, or whathave you
>>> the above.
>>> One other thing tho... I've always heard that large changes in pitch, 
>>> and
>>> destringing / restringing proceedures should be carefull of this 
>>> area....
>>> making carefull changes that are appliled very evenly,  exactly because
>>> this area can easily be damaged by sudden large changes in the stresses
>>> applied to the panel as a whole.  Seems to jive well if the basic view
>>> above  is correct to begin with.
>>>
>>> Cheers
>>> RicB
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>
>
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