This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ---------------------- multipart/alternative attachment David, et al, =20 Well said.=20 =20 I DID play the '28 D that you and Dale had in Sacramento (already posted = a comment to Dale). I sat down at that piano and the first thing I played = was an octave in the low bass. It was the most beautiful sound I've ever = heard from a piano, bar none, I exaggerate not. =20 Please understand that I live in that mysterious part of the world where = old Lesters, Winters, Wurlys, Chicks, Gulbransens, and Starks come to die. I tune 3 small Steinway grands, one new (Chinese) Steck grand, one (bless them) nice M&H, a couple of older small Baldwin grands, and a boatload = of Hamilton studios (some nearly new, one that served on Noah's cruise = ship, I think, and was worn out then). Only the Mason is big enough and nice = enough to qualify as an RPT test piano and I've only seen it once, so far. =20 So I can sure hear and appreciate good voicing but, as you say, it is = hard to communicate with words. And I only have an intellectual, theoretical = idea how it's produced, not the skills to do it.=20 =20 I'm going to spend time in Frank Henderson's shop doing some work in exchange for some coaching on this. I honestly think voicing is a skill = that cannot be learned from a book and on one's own. I don't think one can = one acquire those "ears" without hearing pianos and experiencing the = difference with a guide at your side. At least, not I. =20 Hope you didn't think my comment was a negative reaction to your post--I actually liked the sound of your words. But how does that all sound in a piano? Ahhh .... maybe like that bass octave in California.=20 =20 Hey, I liked the racing stripes, too. (Now everyone will be asking you = what the heck THAT means!) =20 Alan R. Barnard Salem, MO =20 P.S. Part of my pursuit of this at this time is a desire to rescue an = area Methodist church from the shrill, busy, ultra-bright, piercing, stident, trident (gummed up) sound of the little Samick SG-172 grand they bought. = I'm pretty sure it's going to start with some serious string seating, bridge = pin stabilization, and regulation--followed by a session in the back room = with those hammers ... under a bright light ... with a rubber hose and brass knuckles, to soften them up. I don't THINK I could make it worse, even = with what I know, now. And, no, there are no other guild techs within two = hours of here and no local yokels I'd want to invite to help. I am alllllll aloooooooone here in the elephant ivory graveyard. =20 -----Original Message----- From: pianotech-bounces@ptg.org [mailto:pianotech-bounces@ptg.org] On = Behalf Of David Andersen Sent: Saturday, March 05, 2005 11:22 PM To: Pianotech Subject: Re: Modern Tone II, the Return of the Question 4. For those with limited experience and little opportunitity to mentor = with someone, terms like "large, dark, powerful, clear, and throaty, with = roar and snap at double or triple forte, but NEVER clangy or distorted" just leave one guessing as to what they mean. I assume that "dark" means = power in the lower partials not overshadowed by the higher ones (?) but I'd be guessing about that "roar and snap" thing. This isn't to criticize = David's description, merely to point out the difficulties and frustrations of communicating sensory perceptions through verbage. I've watch Roger = Jolly and Ari Issac do some voicing and marveled at what they can do and how = well they do it. But even trying, in person, to demonstrate and teach voicing = to a room full of people seems very challenging: "See, the sound is now a = broad 'Ohhhhh' instead of an "Ehhhhh and it sits higher against on the shelf." (Made part of that up .... sorry) I think it's like people describing wines without giving you a sip: Yes, = and this vintage is drier than a moselle, slightly nutty, with just a hint = of the vine not revealed in the bouqet unless consumed at midnight in a graveyard while holding a dead cat. Alan R. Barnard Always Studyin' but Not Always Gettin' It in Salem, MO My friend---I=92m just trying to give words to an aural phenomenon, and = it=92s tough, but that=92s what =93developing a tonal memory=94 means: = developing an internal sense of how a piano is =93supposed=94 to sound at all volume = and attack levels. If you played the concert grands that Dale Erwin and I brought to the Sacramento PTG Convention, I can say that both of those pianos are in the ballpark of what most artists, technicians, and = serious listeners would describe as achieving the sonority of the 40=92s and = 50=92s pianos---powerful and clear, without distortion or a brittle quality. = There I go again :--) The CDs I mentioned in an earlier post are a good indication of what = I=92m trying to put in words. If we=92d met in Sacramento, I would have given = you a CD that I had a few copies of there---an amazing young jazz player named Tamir Hendelman, playing trio versions of Christmas songs on a 1923 long = A my shop rebuilt. That piano is a touch brighter, but sounds like a Bill Evans record, which nearly always had imeccably tuned and voiced pianos. It=92s a lifetime of listening and learning. I still feel like a rank = novice a lot of the time. Voicing is a noble challenge. It demands that so many things about the = piano be right. When you become passionate about the voice of the instrument, your toleration of unregulated and unprepared pianos becomes slimmer and = slimmer, and your business changes. This coming week, 4 of the 5 days are one = long day, or 2 long days, with a good grand piano. It wasn=92t like that 6 or = 7 years ago; it was much more tuning 3 or 4 pianos a day. As my ears have grown, my practice has grown and improved.=20 -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.5.7 - Release Date: 03/01/2005 --=20 No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.5.7 - Release Date: 03/01/2005 =20 ---------------------- multipart/alternative attachment An HTML attachment was scrubbed... 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