On Topic - Other fixed length strings: Was OT Tuning a guitar using and Equal Temperament method

[Alan Barnard]

I think any discussion related to inharmonicity, string theory, music
theory, and tuning is always on topic. There are things to learn ...

Specifically, from your post: I am also a classical guitarist, with a
pretty decent instrument.I've tried various tempered schemes and always
came away saying, "Eh, too much trouble.Kinda sucky results." 

I wasn't bothered much by guitar tuning until I became a piano tuner. Now,
over the years, the guitar tuning kinda drives me nuts if I pay too much
attention to it. Maybe a true equal temperament would sound better, but I
really notice that the quality of the tuning (the sound) depends on the key
you're in and where you are on the neck, and (heaven help you) if you are
matching pure harmonics with played notes, say at the 12th fret--which is
where the rubber really meets the road, crashes, and burns on cheap guitars.

I've never tuned a harpsichord or harp. How much does IH show up on these?
Are they tuned ET?

How about orchestral bells, chimes, celestes, xylophones, vibraphones, and
marimbas? Anyone know?

(I was going to include glockenspiels, but to me those boogers always sound
like rock-hard hammers hitting badly tuned, wild-string treble unisons,
anyway. Ha.)

Alan Barnard
Salem, Missouri


> [Original Message]
> From: Steve Borgstrom <orchman@comcast.net>
> To: Pianotech <pianotech@ptg.org>
> Date: 09/17/2005 5:55:15 PM
> Subject: OT:Tuning a guitar using and Equal Temperament method
>
> I tune pianos aurally and also play classical guitar. I would be  
> interested to hear from any tuners who also play guitar and need to  
> tune same whether they think there is any merit to the following  
> method of tuning a guitar.
>
> The rest of you should have deleted this OT post by now! <big grin>
>
> Thanks in advance.
> Steve
> ---
> (I posted the following to a Classical Guitar Forum)
>
> Any methods using fretted partials (harmonics) will introduce an  
> error due to the Pythagorean comma (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ 
> Pythagorean_comma) if you are trying to produce an equal temperament.
>
> I tune pianos aurally and have found that I can use basically the  
> same method I use on pianos, on guitar. It is simply this:
>
> Tune your 5th string (A) to a fork or an electronic tuning device.
>
> Sound your 5th and 6th string together. Listen for the beats produced  
> what would be the 5th fret partial (harmonic) on E and 7th fret  
> partial on A. Make the E-A interval slightly wide, 1 or 2 beats per 5  
> seconds.
>
> Do the same for A(5th string) to D(4th string). Again listen for the  
> 5th-7th fret harmonic beats and make the interval slightly wide, 1-2  
> beats per 5 seconds. It shouldn't sound like "beats" really, just a  
> slow roll.
>
> Do the same for D(4th string) to G(3rd string), making the interval  
> slightly wide, but not as wide as the lower strings.
>
> Tune the E(1st string) to the E(6th string) as pure a double octave  
> as you can, or maybe just slightly wide.
>
> Then tune the B(2nd string) to E(1st string) at 1 beat (or less) per  
> 5 seconds.
>
> I then check intervals of a 5th on the open A(5th), D(4th), A (2nd  
> fret on G 3rd string), D(3rd fret on B 2nd string), A (5th fret on E  
> 1st string) and make sure they are slightly narrow.
>
> If you've nailed it, the G(3rd string) to E (1st string) interval  
> sounded together will produce a beat of about 8 beats per second.
>
> This sounds helluva cumbersome, but once you get used to it you can  
> tune a guitar in 30 seconds or less with it. :-)
>
> If the guitar was WAY out of tune to start with, do the process again  
> to balance string tension. Keep in mind that cruddy strings and a mal- 
> adjusted bridge/saddle/nut will affect tuning greatly. Bridge and nut  
> adjustments are best left to a luthier, IMHO. :-)
>
> It takes me between an hour to an hour and a half to tune a piano, so  
> I consider my self lucky I play guitar!
>
> I'd be interested to hear if anyone uses a similar technique or finds  
> this to be useful. If you are new to tuning guitars, this is NOT the  
> technique for you. It takes a while to train your brain to be able to  
> filter through what you are supposed to be listening to using this  
> method.
>
> Happy tuning!
>
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