(careful, it is about temperaments)

[David Love]

Serious pianists?  Not many probably.  But upper echelon concert pianists
who make a living researching the historical minutia?  More than we probably
give credit to.  

David Love
davidlovepianos@comcast.net 

-----Original Message-----
From: pianotech-bounces@ptg.org [mailto:pianotech-bounces@ptg.org] On Behalf
Of Andrew and Rebeca Anderson
Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2006 7:22 AM
To: An open list for piano technicians
Subject: RE: (careful, it is about temperaments)

I've discussed historical temperaments with a local piano professor 
who is interested in thorough investigation on how to interpret a 
piece.  (He wants a pianoforte.) He freely acknowledged that he had 
not been taught anything about temperaments--that he had much to 
investigate there.  How many serious pianists do you know who 
actually converse a little on temperaments.  I don't think anyone has 
done an in depth survey on this.  I suspect that technician's have 
been in the driver's seat on temperament while artists have generally 
been more concerned with unisons, stability and regular 
intervals--octaves and fifths etc.
I have several pianos on the floor here.  I'm going to put a WT on 
one (the smaller grand) and see how people compare them. ;-)  I'll 
probably invite the prof. over to try it out.

Andrew Anderson

At 07:48 AM 1/12/2006, you wrote:
>One other comment.  The problem with these types of explanations is that
>they ignore the data.  In reaching a conclusion you first have to look at
>the data and what that tells you.  After that you look at factors which
>might mitigate against your conclusion.  The data suggest that people who
>are presumed savvy about issues such as temperament are not choosing them.
>The factors that mitigate against that conclusion are such as those
>mentioned below but even so, it represents only one tuners attitude on the
>subject and there's nothing to suggest that artists are asking for HT's and
>not getting them.  When you stick to your conclusion (really your opening
>premise) in spite of the data then it suggests a bias.  You're really
>starting with a conclusion and then looking for reasons to support it
rather
>than collecting the data and reaching a conclusion based on what you find.
>
>
>
>David Love
>davidlovepianos@comcast.net
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Porritt, David [mailto:pianotech-bounces@ptg.org] On Behalf Of
>Porritt, David
>Sent: Wednesday, January 11, 2006 2:26 PM
>To: An open list for piano technicians
>Subject: RE: (careful, it is about temperaments)
>
>
>
>Or they thought that when they took their show on the road they couldn't
get
>the temperament of their choice executed by the technicians in the field.
> >From my observations that's probably true.  I listened to Franz Mohr tell
a
>class that if an artist asks for a non-ET temperament to just tune ET and
>don't go there.  Now that was a few years ago but his view of the subject
>indicated that this idea was probably not subject to change.
>
>
>
>dp
>
>
>
>__________________________
>
>David M. Porritt, RPT
>Meadows School of the Arts
>Southern Methodist University
>Dallas, TX 75275
>dporritt@smu.edu
>
>
>
>   _____
>
>From: pianotech-bounces@ptg.org on behalf of David Love
>Sent: Wed 1/11/2006 2:49 PM
>To: 'An open list for piano technicians'
>Subject: RE: (careful, it is about temperaments)
>
>One thing to consider in all this (and I've probably exhausted my thoughts)
>is what the major pianist/scholars are doing in this respect.  Pianists
like
>Brendl, Schnabel, Perahia, and most of not virtually all others who pour
>over original source material, biographies, writings, documents in order to
>glean that small little detail that adds to their commitment to a more
>authentic interpretation of the music as conceived by the composer.  Of all
>these people it seems (and I say this with the caveat that I have not
>actually done the research) that most if not all of them, when choosing to
>record/perform, opt for ET.  While there may be a few who, to their credit,
>are exploring these pieces in the temperaments of the times, they are a
>stark minority.  To suggest that the leading interpreters of classical
music
>of the last century take such pains for authenticity while rejecting the,
we
>assume, prevailing tuning style of the times forces you to the conclusion
>that they either consciously chose to reject it because it wasn't in their
>view relevant to the music and authentic interpretation, or that they
>are/were ignorant, biased or, as Bremmer suggests, did it for some strange
>business reason.  Considering the extent to which they research these
issues
>and their apparent commitment to the original intent of the composers leads
>me to the conclusion that the tuning style was rejected consciously and
that
>it was not relevant, in their view, to an authentic and musical
>interpretation.  Who am I to argue?  If there is real evidence to the
>contrary, I'm open to hearing it.
>
>David Love
>davidlovepianos@comcast.net
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: pianotech-bounces@ptg.org [mailto:pianotech-bounces@ptg.org] On
Behalf
>Of Ric Brekne
>Sent: Wednesday, January 11, 2006 10:48 AM
>To: pianotech
>Subject: (careful, it is about temperaments)
>
>As to the matter of conclusive.... we of course agree.  I dont anyone
>can claim conclusive proof one way or the other either... not by a long
>shot.  That said, I /believe/ that composers were affected by the sounds
>around them... perfect pitch aware or not. I try to imagine my self in
>that same enviroment... could I not be influenced ? Could it not be a
>significant part of why I choose any particular key ?  Well... we will
>never know perhaps... I'm not sure it really matters much.  Certainly
>much in that world is there to be explored... if not re-explored.
>
>Cheers
>RicB
>
>While I think the exploration of WT has it's own interest in terms of what
>the composers of that day may have been hearing when they actually played
>their works on the piano or related instrument, I think it is far from
>conclusive that those who often conceived of and composed things away from
>the instrument, with a keen sense of absolute pitch and the unique
>characteristics of each key apart from the piano, with orchestration ever
in
>their minds would have been driven by tuning style that was evolving even
>during their own lifetimes.
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