Avery, i'll answer some of questions/opinions in order to explain mine > From where? Japan? If so, that might be one of your problems Yes Japan of course. Problems? i found problems mostly with kawais not yamahas (desintegrating loop cords on ups. are about the only problem found on older yamahas) > I've been servicing Kawai's for years and have NEVER seen that problem!! > And we have several that are subjected to extremely heavy use. I have yet > to > have to repair a pedal lyre! Well, i have had A FEW kawai lyres in the workshop that i collected from customers houses in order to glue and clamp together, and those are new kawai grands i'm talking about. i said: >>The castors, the bolts and screws, etc, kawai ones >>just scream the words "cheap n nasty", > Not even! Believe me, one could almost cut their fingers on the corners of those bolts for legs/lyres on many kawai grands. Also, try actually pushing an older kawai about n u'll notice the castors arent efficient at all. i said: >>no matter how many times you do and >>undo yamaha bolts/screws, they'll still keep the thread and the heads >> wont >>become useless. > Neither do Kawai's! The truth is, ive had this happen on kawais and not on yamahas. > Legs made of plastic? Not that I've ever seen well, next time you come accros a kawai cx-5h upright (that was one of the models i've seen them on), you take a good look. You see, when moving pianos regularly, one gets to notice many many details than when just tuning/servicing. i said:>>We have now stopped using kawais for concert hire >>because of these things and of course tuning stability is far superior on >>yamahas. > That's not true, either! Assuming you have a good technician! The huge climate changes troughout the different seasons, night/day, from one city to another (even in very close proximity), constant moving of the pianos, show me really damm well what pianos are stable and which arent! > Assuming you have a good technician! Well, it certainly put a BIG smile on my face reading this comment in particular. Here is why: - The other two technicians i work with are true experts with well over 20 n 35 years experience each. Experience gained: one of them as head tuner/technician at a very reputable Steinway dealer abroad (taking care of their Concert and Artist department) aswell as many years tuning "on the road" aswell as rebuilding work, etc etc. The other one, as head tuner at a well known European factory, aswell as doing loads of concert work at the BBC. So needless to say they are the best tuners around in Spain, and certainly some of the best in Europe. Anyway, thats one reason, the other is: when i (or any of them) can get a "rock solid" tuning, why does it nearly always last far longer on a yamaha than on a kawai??? Just making sure you understand in this case tuning stability has nothing to do with "assuming you have a good technician". Yamahas are a much more resistent piano, that is a fact that gets confirmed over and over. > It's "called" plastic, but it's not the old plastic (as in plastic > elbows). I > really like it. It's much more stable. It certainly is old plastic in the older uprights i've seen. > What kind of noises? From where? So do Yamaha's. So do Steinway's, etc., > etc. So you do know what kind of noises then! yes, all pianos do, but in my experience they are found more often in kawais than yamahas. > Why do you say that? Other than the color? yes, thats right. >At least Kawai is trying to do > some > R & D to improve their instruments! I am glad to hear so, honestly. They very much need the changes! they obviously dont have the experience yamaha have, just take a look at the quantities of yamahas vs kawais mr.Pierce's book will tell you the exact numbers. Yamaha have made several more millions of pianos that kawai or any other manufacturer. > I'm not sure what the S series is, They market them as "hand made", superior pianos. S4 (194cm) and S6 (212cm) grands, SU uprights (121,131,7). Very fine pianos indeed. >but it would be very hard to beat the > Shigeru. No matter what the brand! JMO, after years of working on them. > Well prepped, it would probably beat the 'B'. We have one 7'+ (I can't > remember > the exact size), but everyone who plays on it, loves it! i absolutely take your word for it. I hope to work on enough Shigerus to find out for myself. (havent worked on or even played one yet) > Earl Wild recently made a recording on a Shigeru EX celebrating his 90th > year > (I believe) and it's fantastic! If you want to > hear some great voicing, buy it. > It's called "Living History" and is available at: > http://www.ivoryclassics.com I'm actually curious to listen to it :) Thanks for letting us know. Regards, Patrick > William, > > I totally agree. The only thing I don't like about the new ABS actions is > that > it's SO dark in there! :-) > > What is the Yamaha S series? Better than the C? And the Shigeru's are > great! > > Avery > > At 01:07 PM 3/5/2006, you wrote: >>Patrick, >> >>Respectfully disagree. I find the newer Kawais, particularly the RX's to >> be >>very nice if properly voiced and regulated from the factory. The >> Shigeru's, >>of which I have seen a few - very nice. Some of the best, IMO. Yes, >> with >>or above the Yamaha S series. >> >>As for the new action parts, "black ABS" being just plain weird, someone >>probably said that about the double-escapement grand action that Erard >> came >>up with. The action parts BTW are Carbon-impregnated ABS. I think they >> are >>the cat's meow. Just my opinion. ABS in general, is found to be >> stronger, >>more dimensionally stable, among other things. >> >>Regards, >>William R. Monroe >> >> >> >>----- Original Message ----- >>From: "PIANISSIMO PIANOFORTE S.L." <patrick at pianospianissimo.com> >>To: <deanmay at pianorebuilders.com>; "Pianotech List" <pianotech at ptg.org> >>Sent: Sunday, March 05, 2006 12:16 PM >>Subject: Kawai vs. Yamaha. was: near impossible tuning >> >> >> >> > Dale wrote: I really like the Kawai grands in general. The tone is >> far >> > more interesting than it other Japanese competitor & I can do >> wonderful >> > things with the voicing . >> >>For me, (and i'm sure many others will agree) Kawai's are not very >>consistent in tone. Some are really nice, many are not. Yamaha's arent >>that consistent either, but at least the sound doesnt "distort" when >>played louder. As Dale just said, with most Kawais all you get is NOISE >>after a second of sustain. Even though many kawais seem like they have a >>very nice tone when you first play one, it doesnt last! >> >> > These are pianos with original hammers that have probably never had a >> > needle >> > stuck in them. Is this a hammer/voicing problem? >> >>hmm... most yamahas ive seen havent either been neddled and they dont >> have >>that problem >> >>We import many used Yamahas and Kawais, and the difference in quality is >>clear, the materials and the way yamahas are made are much better by FAR. >>Starting out with the casework for instance, while kawai lyres just fall >>to bits even if only a few months old, i have never seen or heard of a >>yamaha lyre loosen. The castors, the bolts and screws, etc, kawai ones >>just scream the words "cheap n nasty", no matter how many times you do >> and >>undo yamaha bolts/screws, they'll still keep the thread and the heads >> wont >>become useless. On older uprights is not uncommon to see rusty colums >>(legs) as they where made of metal. And on newer ones made of plastic, >>they kind of bend! We have now stopped using kawais for concert hire >>because of these things and of course tuning stability is far superior on >>yamahas. >> >>Action-wise (kawai).... what's all that plastic doing there??? might be >> ok >>when new, but when you need to replace stuff... pedal mechanisms often >>make all sorts of noises... etc etc. The only thing i can think of right >>now that i really like on kawai grands is the screw adjustment for the >>springs on whippens, quick and delightful to regulate with those! BTW the >>new black ABS plastic whippens are just weird!! >> >>Havent seen the Shigeru models yet, are they any better? Don't think they >>can beat the Yamaha S series, can they? >> >>Patrick >> >> >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > I don't get it. Most all of the Kawai grands I tune (which aren't that >> > many) >> > I don't really care much for. Since there aren't any new Kawais being >> sold >> > in this area most of the ones I encounter are 10 plus years old of the >> KG >> > variety, a couple of GS, one GS-70. I don't like the sustain. With the >> > sustain pedal on when playing an arpeggio the sound quickly fades into >> > white >> > noise and one cannot discern what scale was just played. I've done >> some >> > experimenting even, hitting individual notes across the scale with an >> f >> > blow >> > and I get about a second of tone before there is only noise. >> > >> > >> > >> > These are pianos with original hammers that have probably never had a >> > needle >> > stuck in them. Is this a hammer/voicing problem? >> > >> > Dean >> > >> > Dean May cell 812.239.3359 >> > >> > PianoRebuilders.com 812.235.5272 >> > >> > Terre Haute IN 47802 >> > >> > >> > >> > -----Original Message----- >> > From: pianotech-bounces at ptg.org [mailto:pianotech-bounces at ptg.org] On >> > Behalf >> > Of Erwinspiano at aol.com >> > Sent: Friday, March 03, 2006 10:18 AM >> > To: pianotech at ptg.org >> > Subject: Re: near impossible tuning >> > >> > >> > >> > Dittos Roger >> > >> > Ed Normally I find Kawai a very stable piano. I tuned a Kg-2 the >> other >> > day & I had not tuned it for 3 years. Except for being 6 cents flat, >> > enough for a pitch raise, it was in solidly in tune with itself & I >> > wondered >> > why I was there. It is also an easy piano to tune. >> > >> > I really like the Kawai grands in general. The tone is far more >> > interesting than it other Japanese competitor & I can do wonderful >> things >> > with the voicing . However on some of the grands & verticals a like >> have >> > pins do not render well. >> > >> > Ed I don't get it & would like to know this is only an isolated >> incident >> > as I currently have a client looking to buy one of the same models >> > >> > Dale >> > >> > After lifting, leveling, and fitting, the power, sustain, and voicing >> > will >> > improve. >> > >> > String lifting is a skill just like tuning, I would hardly call it >> > indiscriminate. >> > >> > Regards Roger >> > >> > >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > Pianotech list info: https://www.moypiano.com/resources/#archives >> > >> >> >>Patrick Hinves Ballesta >>Afinador/Técnico 610442371 >>PIANISSIMO PIANOFORTE S.L. >> >>_______________________________________________ >>Pianotech list info: https://www.moypiano.com/resources/#archives >> >> >> >>_______________________________________________ >>Pianotech list info: https://www.moypiano.com/resources/#archives > > > _______________________________________________ > Pianotech list info: https://www.moypiano.com/resources/#archives > Patrick Hinves Ballesta Afinador/Técnico 610442371 PIANISSIMO PIANOFORTE S.L.
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